> With this news about Harikesa and sex, viewing the
> repression of it as a cause for divorce amongst
> devotees, I feel compelled to say something.
> Some months ago on the Education conference I engaged in
> a lengthy discussion regarding SEX and REPRESSION, and
> I find similar threads echoed here. Since our discussion
> on VAD on this conference is meant to broaden our
> understanding of the practical implications for
> mall members ("classes") of society, I feel this
> is an important topic. "Sex" makes the cycle
> of life (samsara) go 'round -- or cease -- from
> whatever perspective we consider it.
> First of all, any talk of a single discrete *cause*
> in social science involves elaborate investigation
> and analysis, and in general, there is no ONE
> *cause*, as human behavior is complex, multi-factorial
> and varies according to individual, situation, age, etc.
> Therefore to propose that any ONE particular factor is
> THE cause of ALL our marital difficulties
> (ie, *repression* "causing" divorce) is a
> misnomer to begin with.
> What we require to know is which elements of married
> life significantly affect the conjugal relationship and the
> behavior/psychological functioning of the individuals
> partners. It is rarely a matter of an all-or-nothing,
> but a question of "what?" and "how much?"
> While there is no single cut-and-dry element, I submit
> that neither can we say REPRESSION does not play
> its part. After all, it's right there in Bhagavad-gita
> 3rd chapter: ya aste manas smaran "One who artificially
> restrains his senses but meditates on the sense objects
> within is a pretender...." Frustration and perversion
> inevitably result from such artificial repression.
> And later in the chapter, "Even a man of knowledge
> acts according to his own nature... For what can
> repression acccomplish?"
> Repression is therefore not an imaginary phenomenon,
> but documented in sastra as a serious obstacle to
> genuine spritual progress. Historically, we have
> wintessed that it has been quite prevalent throughout
> our ISKCON society. In fact, we have been a society
> of pretenders, imitating Srila Prabhupada from "top
> to bottom" -- from the leaders to the youngest
> newcomers, from acting in the most exalted role
> as guru to what takes place underneath the covers.
> I propose REPRESSION has characterized ISKCON
> and permeates its culture along every dimension.
> The symptom of repression is INSENSITIVITY -- or
> in other words, EMOTIONAL UNAVAILABILITY --
> between guru and disciple, godbrothers to
> godsisters, parents to children, husband
> to wife, etc., etc.
> As Prtha Didi herself states:
> Divorce is happening due to a lack of an EMOTIONAL
> CONNECTION. [my emphasis].
> I disagree however, with how Prtha arrives at her
> conclusion and her one-sided analysis:
> Having sex, or NOT having sex, has nothing to do with
> the divorce rate in ISKCON.
> This is a patent overgeneralization and not a fact for
> everyone. We know in the greater "karmi" world, SEX and
> its emotional complications have EVERYTHING to do with
> too many divorces. I submit that devotees are not
> altogether free from those same SEXUAL dynamics.
> I think Harikesa's call for realism is therefore
> well-taken.
> ...One doesn't have to have sex to love their
> marital partner.
> The converse is also true, "One can have sex as part
> of *loving* their marital partner." Not every couple
> is renounced as the next. One person's excessive
> passion is another's need for love. In VAD there
> are "Different strokes for different folks."
> Don't misread me. Repression is certainly not the *only*
> cause in divorce and there are generally more global
> issues at stake. But at the same time, this doesn't
> mean repression doesn't play ANY part in
> misunderstandings and marital dsicord
> which ultimately leads to divorce.
> In specific cases, repression may very well be THE
> major issue or causal factor in marital breakdown.
> Sex may be a tiny or even non-existent part in a renounced,
> senior vanaprastha couple's life, and quite the reverse in
> a newlywed experiencing the passionate years of life.
> Another consideration is an individual's quality of
> consciousness: Canakya defines a *brahmana* as one
> who has sex only once in a month at the most fertile
> time with the purpose of conceiving children. Such a
> lifelong standard of restriction is clearly IMPOSSIBLE
> for the vast majority of couples, even for "devotees."
> Let's get real. We are not all *pucca* brahmanas, nor
> can we expect everyone to be. Ksatriyas kept
> concubines, etc. There were even prostitutes
> in Dwaraka.
> I personally feel that Prabhupada understood sexual
> dynamics very well, and like a good teacher, drew a
> strict standard to encourage his disciples to come up
> to the highest standard as best we could. At the same
> time, he was also sympathetic to devotees who expressed
> their inability to keep that *ideal* standard. He wanted
> to create an *ideal* class of men and women. Prabhupada
> exhorted us to "shoot for the rhinocerous," but we
> practically see how many of us (initiated) continue
> to fall short.
> Prtha Didi states, "Let's not be extremists," and I
> agree. But not quite on how she depicts the situation.
> If we don't acknowledge when there's a
> problem -- REPRESSION -- then there's
> no chance to improve.
> I submit that SEXUAL REPRESSION has had far-reaching
> consequences on our marriages and divorce in ISKCON.
> Just as its opposite, licentious indulgence,
> repression can also destroy marriages.
> When understood within the broader context, I think it
> goes without saying, that SEX is a major issue in any
> marriage, to greater of lesser degrees depending on the
> individuals involved. Conversely, its repression has an
> equally upsetting effect in the balance of activities.
> Why else do people get married if sex isn't a factor?
> Let's be realistic.
> Sexual attraction and sexual intercourse are part of a
> whole constellation of desires, emotions, behaviors and
> exchanges which form, in sum, a "marriage."
> We often say how a marriage is "consummated" in the sex
> act; sex is the culmination or fruit of a whole field of
> activites. Sexual intercourse may play a very small role
> or a very big role in that equation, but how can anyone
> say that sex or that a philosophy of sexual repression
> is not important? That depends, of course. But for most
> couples, we can safely say (because Prabhupada said it),
> sex is a major issue in married life. How can we DENY it?
> We had better NOT.
> Srila dasa
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Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 7, Ch. 15 TEXT 70] Instructions for Civilized Human Beings
PURPORT
To be a playboy in this life is unfortunate because too much attraction to women will lead one to fall into the association of sudras, who can easily take advantage of mingling with women without restriction. In this present age of Kali, when people are mandah, sumanda-matayah - very bad because of a sudra mentality - such free mingling is prominent. Among the higher classes - brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya - there is no chance for men to mingle with women freely, but in the sudra community such mingling is open. Because there is no cultural education in this age of Kali, everyone is spiritually untrained, and everyone is therefore considered sudra (asuddhah sudra-kalpa hi brahmanah kali-sambhavah). When all the people become sudras, certainly they are very bad (mandah sumanda-matayah). Thus they manufacture their own way of life, with the result that they gradually become unfortunate (manda-bhagyah), and furthermore they are always disturbed by various circumstances.
TEXT 71
ekada deva-satre tu gadharvapsarasam ganah upahuta visva-srgbhir hari-gathopagayaneekada - once upon a time; deva-satre - in an assembly of the demigods; tu indeed; gandharva - of the inhabitants of Gandharvaloka; apsarasam - and the inhabitants of Apsaraloka; ganah - all; upahutah - were invited; visva-srgbhih - by the great demigods known as the prajapatis; hari-gatha-upagayane - on the occasion of kirtana for glorifying the Supreme Lord.
TRANSLATION
Once there was a sankirtana festival to glorify the Supreme Lord in an assembly of the demigods, and the Gandharvas and Apsaras were invited by the prajapatis to take part in it.
PURPORT
Sankirtana means chanting of the holy name of the Lord. The Hare Krsna movement is not a new movement as people sometimes mistakenly think. The Hare Krsna movement is present in every millennium of Lord Brahma's life, and the holy name is chanted in all the higher planetary systems, including Brahmaloka and Chandraloka, not to speak of Gandharvaloka and Apsaraloka. The sankirtana movement that was started five hundred years ago by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is therefore not a new movement. Sometimes, because of our bad luck, this movement is stopped, but Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His servants again start the movement for the benefit of the entire world or, indeed, the entire universe.
TEXT 72
aham ca gayams tad-vidvan stribhih parivrto gatah jnatva visva-srjas tan me helanam sepur ojasa yahi tvam sudratam asu nasta-srih krta-helanahaham - I myself; ca - and; gayan - singing the glories of other demigods rather than those of the Lord; tat-vidvan - knowing very well the art of singing; stribhih - by women; pravrtah - being surrounded; gatah - went there; jnatva - knowing well; visva-srjah - the prajapatis, to whom the management of universal affairs was entrusted; tat - the attitude of my singing; me - my; helanam - negligence; sepuh - cursed; ojasa - with great force; yahi - become; tvam - you; sudratam - a sudra; asu - immediately; nasta - devoid of; srih - beauty; krta-helanah - because of transgressing the etiquette.
TRANSLATION
Narada Muni continued: Being invited to that festival, I also joined, and, surrounded by women, I began musically singing the glories of the demigods. Because of this, the prajapatis, the great demigods in charge of the affairs of the universe, forcefully cursed me with these words: "Because you have committed an offense, may you immediately become a sudra, devoid of beauty."
PURPORT
As far as kirtana is concerned, the sastras say, sravanam kirtanam visnoh: one should chant the glories of the Supreme Lord and the holy name of the Supreme Lord. This is clearly stated. Sravanam kirtanam visnoh: one should chant about and glorify Lord Visnu, not any demigod. Unfortunately, there are foolish persons who invent some process of kirtana on the basis of a demigod's name. This is an offense. Kirtana means glorifying the Supreme Lord, not any demigod. Sometimes people invent Kali-kirtana or Siva-kirtana, and even big sannyasis in the Mayavada school say that one may chant any name and still get the same result. But here we find that millions and millions of years ago, when Narada Muni was a Ghandarva, he neglected the order to glorify the Lord, and being mad in the association of women, he began to chant otherwise. Thus he was cursed to become a sudra. His first offense was that he went to join the sankirtana party in the company of lusty women, and another offense was that he considered ordinary songs, like cinema songs and other such songs, to be equal to sankirtana. For this offense he was punished with becoming a sudra.
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 6, Ch. 4 TEXTS 49-50]
PURPORT
Nothing is possible without tapasya.
TEXT 51
esa pancajanasyanga duhita vai prajapateh aksini nama patnitve prajesa pratigrhyatamesa - this; pancajanasya - of Pancajana; anga - O My dear son; duhita - the daughter; vai - indeed; prajapateh - another prajapati; asikni nama - of the name Asikni; patnitve - as your wife; prajesa - O prajapati; pratigrhiyatam - let her be accepted.
TRANSLATION
O My dear son Daksa, Prajapati Pancajana has a daughter named Aksini, whom I offer to you so that you may accept her as your wife.
TEXT 52
mithuna-vyavaya-dharmas tvam praja-sargam imam punah mithuna-vyavayah-dharminyam bhuriso bhavayisyasimithuna - of man and woman; vyavaya - sexual activities; dharmah - who accepts by religious performance; tvam - you; praja-sargam - creation of living entities; imam - this; punah - again; mithuna - of man and woman united; vyavaya-dharminyam - in her according to the religious performance of sexual intercourse; bhurisah - manifold; bhavayisyasi - you will cause to be.
TRANSLATION
Now unite in sexual life as man and woman, and in this way, by sexual intercourse, you will be able to beget hundreds of children in the womb of this girl to increase population.
PURPORT
The Lord says in Bhagavad-gita (7.11), darmaviruddho bhutesu kamo 'smi: "I am sex that is not contrary to religious principles." Sexual intercourse ordained by the Supreme Personality of Godhead is dharma, a religious principle, but it is not intended for sense enjoyment. Indulgence in sense enjoyment through sexual intercourse is not allowed by the Vedic principles. One may follow the natural tendency for sex life only to beget children. Therefore the Lord told Daksa in this verse, "The girl is offered to you only for sex life to beget children, not for any other purpose. She is very fertile, and therefore you will be able to have as many children as you can beget.
Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura remarks in this connection that Daksa was given the facility for unlimited sexual intercourse. In Daksa's previous life he was also known as Daksa, but in the course of performing sacrifices he offended Lord Siva, and thus his head was replaced with that of a goat. Then Daksa gave up his life because of his degraded condition, but because he maintained the same unlimited sexual desires, he underwent austerities by which he satisfied the Supreme Lord, who then gave him unlimited potency for sexual intercourse.
It should be noted that although such a facility for sexual intercourse is achieved by the grace of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, this facility is not offered to advanced devotees, who are free from material desires (anybhilasita-sunyam). In this connection it may be noted that if the American boys and girls engaged in the Krsna consciousness movement want to advance in Krsna consciousness to achieve the supreme benefit of loving service to the Lord, they should refrain from indulging in this facility for sex life. Therefore we advise that one should at least refrain from illicit sex. Even if there are opportunities for sex life, one should voluntarily accept the limitation of having sex only for progeny, not for any other purpose. Kardama Muni was also given the facility for sex life, but he had only a slight desire for it. Therefore after begetting children in the womb of Devahuti, Kardama Muni became completely renounced. The purport is that if one wants to return home, back to godhead, one should voluntarily refrain from sex life. Sex should be accepted only as much as needed, not unlimitedly.
One should not think that Daksa received the favor of the Lord by receiving the facilities for unlimited sex. Later verses will reveal that Daksa again committed an offense, this time at the lotus feet of Narada. Therefore although sex life is the topmost enjoyment in the material world and although one may have an opportunity for sexual enjoyment by the grace of God, this entails a risk of committing offenses. Daksa was open to such offenses, and therefore, strictly speaking, he was not actually favored by the Supreme Lord. One should not seek the favor of the Lord for unlimited potency in sex life.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 15 pg. 251:
Srila Prabhupada: Ksatriyas may marry more than one wife. They can take so that all girls must be married.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada pg. 252 & 253:
Nityananda: Are you saying that our men should have more than one wife?
Srila Prabhupada: I have no objection.
Satsvarupa: That's a difficult proposition.
Srila Prabhupada: Why?
Satsvarupa: It's illegal.
Nityananda: No one knows who is married or unmarried, but if you have...
Srila Prabhupada: That is not very difficult. . . . . If you don't call wife you can have. The law allows you to keep boyfriend, girlfriend. Instead of calling husband, call friend. To keep more than one wife by trained up man is not disallowed. . . . .
Nityananda: The general public does not approve of that.
Srila Prabhupada: We don't care.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada, May 16, 1975:
Srila Prabhupada: If you can maintain each and every wife you can marry more than one wife.
BHAGAVAD-GITA 3.15
PURPORT
We should always remember that the conditioned souls in material nature are all eager for material enjoyment. But the Vedic directions are so made that one can satisfy ones perverted desires then return to Godhead having finished his so-called enjoyment. It is a chance for the conditioned souls to attain liberation; therefore the conditioned souls must try to follow the process of yajna by becoming Krsna conscious. (note: Srila Prabhupada: One should not become a husband, a father or a guru etc. unless he is capable of delivering his dependents from the cycle of birth and death).
---------------------------------------------
Dear Prabhus
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Have I committed any offenses,
taken any quotes out of context,
made any mistakes, and/or
done anything I shouldn't have?
If so, I'm sorry.
Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,
Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa
Hare Krsna