Date: Wed, Apr 21 1999 17:09
From: Gauranga Prema Dasa
On 21 Apr 1999, Jagat wrote:
> The Vaisnava scriptures were written in a context
> where VAD is the predominant cultural and social
> ethos. Not only that, but it is thoroughly
> birth-oriented. Imagine a society where
> your birth is in every aspect
> determinant of your entire
> life:
THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 122:
It is this divine varnasrama-dharma that Krsna recommends, not the caste system as it is understood today. This modern caste system is now condemned in India also, and it should be condemned, for the classification of different types of men according to birth is not the Vedic or the divine caste system.
There are many classes of men in society - some men are engineers, some are medical practitioners, some are chemists, tradesmen, businessmen, and so on. These varieties of classes are not to be determined by birth, however, but by quality. No such thing as the caste-by-birth system is sanctioned by the Vedic literature, nor do we accept it. We have nothing to do with the caste system, which is also at present being rejected by the public in India.
THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 118:
India's actual culture is described in the Bhagavad-gita, where it is stated that according to the different qualities or modes of nature there are different types of men, who are generally classified into four social orders and four spiritual orders. This system of social and spiritual division is known as varnasrama-dharma. The four varnas, or social orders, are brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, and sudra. The four asramas, or spiritual orders, are brahmacarya, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa. The varnasrama system is described in the Vedic scriptures known as the Puranas. The goal of this institution of Vedic culture is to educate every man for advancement in knowledge of Krsna, or God. That is the entire Vedic program.
When Lord Caitanya talked with the great devotee Ramananda Raya, the Lord asked him, "What is the basic principle of human life?" Ramananda Raya answered that human civilization begins when varnasrama-dharma is accepted. Before coming to the standard of varnasrama-dharma there is no question of human civilization. Therefore, the Krsna consciousness movement is trying to establish this right system of human civilization, which is known as Krsna consciousness, or daiva-varnasrama - divine culture.
In India, the varnasrama system has now been taken in a perverted way, and thus a man born in the family of a brahmana (the highest social order) claims that he should be accepted as a brahmana. But this claim is not accepted by the sastra (scripture). One's forefather may have been a brahmana according to gotra, or the family hereditary order, but real varnasrama-dharma is based on the factual quality one has attained, regardless of birth or heredity. Therefore, we are not preaching the present-day system of the Hindus...
> This is essentially a medieval system, similar in
> many respects to the feudal system which existed in
> Europe. The seeds of its destruction in Europe came
> with the rise of cities and the petite bourgoisie.
Kali 5100 website:
The Collapse of Dharma
The entire world originally lived as part of the enlightened Vedic culture consisting of the four-fold divisions of human society known as the varnasrama-dharma system. At the beginning of this age, this sublime culture began to deteriorate. It all started when the personality of Kali influenced a brahmana boy to misuse his brahminical power by inappropriately cursing a saintly king, setting in motion the corruption of the entire brahmana order and eventually the social order of the entire world:
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 1, Ch. 18 TEXT 37]
PURPORT
Thus the beginning of the misuse of brahminical power began, and gradually the brahmanas in the age became devoid of both brahminical powers and culture. The brahmana boy considered Maharaja Pariksit to be a kulangara, or the wretched of the dynasty, but factually the brahmana boy himself was so because only from him did the brahmana caste become powerless, like the snake whose poisoned teeth are broken. The snake is fearful as long as his poison teeth are there, otherwise he is fearful only to children. The personality of Kali conquered the brahmana boy first, and gradually the other castes. Thus the whole scientific system of the orders of society in this age has assumed the formed of a vitiated caste system, which is now being uprooted by another class of men similarly influenced by the age of Kali. One should see to the root cause of the vitiation and not try to condemn the system as it is, without knowledge of its scientific value.
The recent manifestations of this degradation are vividly described by Ravindra-svarupa dasa:
Ravindra-svarupa dasa, "Manifesto for a Politics of Transcendence" in Encounter with the Lord of the Universe, 1983:
The society of medieval Europe had a purportedly God-centered civilization with its four orders of clergy (brahmanas), feudal lords (ksatriyas), bourgeois (vaisyas), and serfs (sudras). For a time at least, the European kings required priestly sanction to rule; they were crowned by the pontiff. Yet this was only a rather primitive approximation of varnasrama dharma. The brahmanas never came to a sufficiently high standard of purity, and when they became corrupt, the civilization lost what spiritual vision it had, and the whole system crumbled. And it is still crumbling.
For the collapsing of the primitive medieval varnasrama-dharma has taken more than five-hundred years, and it constitutes all of our modern European history. It began with the corruption of the brahmanas. When the brahmanas became tainted by worldly ambition, they lose their moral and spiritual authority--the only power they ever possess--and the ksatriyas began to see them as worldly princes on the same level as themselves. There is no longer any justification for brahminical preeminence, and therefore the ksatriyas break lose from brahminical domination, a social revolution epitomized in Europe by the Protestant Reformation. Without brahminical direction and restraint, the ksatriyas rapidly lose self-control and become intolerable tyrants. No longer can they justify their sovereignty by divine sanction. The vaisyas therefore rebel against the oppression of a corrupt and useless nobility, an upheaval epitomized by the French Revolution. The clever and enterprising vaisyas come to life, accumulate capital, build up industry and commerce and, in their untrammeled greed for profit, ruthlessly exploit the sudras, who mount their own rebellion, an upheaval exemplified by the communist revolution.
...we have formed our ideas of society, class and their relations on the basis of a society in various stages of progressive decay or collapse, and we are now living through the terminal stage of that collapse...We see the conflict between the left and the right, the communists (sudras) and the capitalists (vaisyas), as the terminus of a long process of social decay, and neither side, therefore, has any real future, any real hope of creating a just and sound society.
Both are rooted in the past and are expressions of social putrefaction. Certainly, European and American society in the twentieth century has become fatally infected by vaisya values run amok. But sudra values run amok are no improvement. As a totally materialistic philosophy, communism fosters rather than eliminates the seeds of exploitation and conflict, encouraging the very conditions it seeks to ameliorate.
Consequently, under communism there will never be a society free from domination of one group by another, of the many by the few, and that domination will be carried on by the most brutal means possible. Both capitalist and communist ideologies are products of exploitation and envy, and neither therefore can hope to eliminate them. They cannot offer release from the process of social degeneration because they are created by it, and the conflict between the two will merely insure, one way or another, the eventual destruction of civilization.
> This is why many devotees feel that VAD can
> only be established in the context of
> village and farming communities.
> This is also why you and others
> like Mahaksa feel that VAD
> has no applicability in
> modern society.
Room Conversation, February 14, 1977, Mayapur:
Hari-sauri: I just remember two or three years ago there was a thing... A pamphlet came out about introducing the varnashrama system in the society, but actually nothing came of it.
Prabhupada: Yes. That time was not right. Now you can do something.
Satsvarupa: That was the beginning of emphasis on farms when Prabhupada said that, when more and more farms start, the idea of the vaishya. But nothing else happened.
Prabhupada: Every business is important. Brahmana business is important, kshatriya... Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased. If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, "Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain." No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varnashrama. They do not know that. Sometimes they are giving stress... That communist is giving stress to the shudra class, and the capitalist are giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied. Everything is disorder. There are two classes of men now-capitalist and communist. The communist is giving stress, "No. Simply the legs shall be taken care." What is called? Proly?
Hari-sauri: Proletariat.
Prabhupada: What is that proletariat?
Satsvarupa: The laborers.
Prabhupada: That's all. These rascals are giving stress on the legs. And the capitalists, they are giving stress on production. And where is the kshatriya and brahmana?
> Though the Bhagavatam rejects VAD as the last
> word in spiritual life and suggests that it
> is transcended by those who have full faith
> in the process of hearing and chanting, it
> also states that one should continue to
> engage in one's sva-karma as long as such
> full faith is not attained. The word sraddha,
> as you know, means "the belief that by exclusively
> serving Krishna all things are achieved." At this point
> one can renounce material activities, etc.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 302:
Srila Prabhupada: Vaisnava is transcendental, but for proper management of the material world, one should be acting like a brahmana, one should be acting like a ksatriya. That is required. If need be he has to act as ksatriya or a sudra. It doesn't matter. But manage, for management the division must be there. Otherwise it will be mismanagement.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 300:
Srila Prabhupada: For the management of affairs we require to divide.
Siksamrta Vol. 3 pg. 2538:
74-04 "You have analyzed that you are distressed because you are not given an engagement in Krsna consciousness. This observation is correct. Unless we are engaged with all our senses and intelligence in serving Krsna where is the question of Krsna consciousness? We are reading here in the evenings how in the fourth chapter of Bhagavad-gita Krsna has arranged for catur-varnyam, the division of four orders, whereby everyone has some engagement according to his personal propensity, his quality and work, and thus everyone can go back to Godhead while performing their work."
Srila Prabhupada Lecture, April 9, 1975, Hyderbad, India:
"Everyone has got a particular tendency to serve Krsna in a different way. Everyone has got his particular propensity."
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 3, Ch. 28 TEXT 2]
PURPORT
One should seek out a bona fide spiritual master and surrender unto him, for by inquiring from and worshiping him one can learn spiritual activities. As long as we have this material body there are various duties prescribed for us. Such duties are divided by a system of four social orders: brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra.
BHAGAVAD-GITA 1.42
PURPORT
The four orders of human society, combined with family welfare activities as they are set forth by the institution of the sanatana-dharma or varnasrama-dharma, are designed to enable a human being to attain his ultimate salvation. Therefore the breaking of the sanatana-dharma tradition by irresponsible leaders of society brings about chaos in that society, and consequently people forget the aim of life-Visnu. Such leaders are called blind and persons who follow such leaders are sure to be lead into chaos.
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 1, Ch. 19 TEXT 4]
PURPORT
The life of a human being is a chance to prepare oneself to go back to Godhead, or to get rid of the material existence, the repetition of birth and death. Thus in the system of varnasrama-dharma every man and woman is trained for this purpose. In other words the system of varnasrama-dharma is also known as sanatana-dharma, or the eternal occupation. The system of varnasrama-dharma prepares a man for going back to Godhead.
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 7, Ch. 11 TEXT 2]
PURPORT
The eternal occupational duty can be organized through the institution of varnasrama, in which there are four varnas (brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra) and four asramas...
BHAGAVAD-GITA 3.35
PURPORT
Everyone has to cleanse his heart by a gradual process, not abruptly. However when one transcends the modes of material nature and is fully situated in Krsna consciousness, he can perform anything and everything under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master. In that complete stage of Krsna consciousness the ksatriya may act as a brahmana, or a brahmana may act as a ksatriya. For example Visvamitra was originally a ksatriya, but later on he acted as a brahmana, whereas Parasurama was a brahmana but later on he acted as a ksatriya. Being transcendentally situated they could do so, but as long as one is on the material platform he must perform his duties according to the modes of material nature. At the same time he must have a full sense of Krsna consciousness. (BHAGAVAD-GITA 3.20 PURPORT: Kings like Janaka . . . all self realized souls . . . transcendentally situated . . . no obligation to perform the prescribed duties in the Vedas, nonetheless they performed all prescribed activities to set examples for the people in general. . . . . Lord Krsna and Arjuna, the Lords eternal friend had no need to fight . . . but they fought just to teach the people in general. Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 302: Srila Prabhupada: If need be he (a vaisnava) has to act as ksatriya or a sudra . . . but manage, for management the division must be there. Otherwise it will be mismanagement).
BHAGAVAD-GITA 2.31
PURPORT
As long as one is not liberated, one has to perform the duties of that particular body in accordance with religious principles in order to achieve liberation.
Nectar of Devotion [Ch. 13] pg. 113:
SB 11.2.8: One should execute the prescribed duties of varna and asrama as long as one has not developed spontaneous attachment for hearing about my pastimes and activities. All of these things are recommended for persons who have not developed Krsna consciousness. . . . . But one who has already developed spontaneous attachment for Krsna does not require to execute the duties in the scriptures. (Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 300: Srila Prabhupada: For the management of affairs we require to divide. Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 302: Srila Prabhupada: Vaisnava is transcendental, but for proper management of the material world one should be acting like a brahmana, one should be acting like a ksatriya...)
Room Conversation, February 14, 1977, Mayapur:
"Varnashrama System Must Be Introduced"
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.
Satsvarupa: But don't we do that also?
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally took sannyasa. He rejected completely material. Niskincana. But we are not going to be niskincana. We are trying to cement the troubled position of the... That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gita. We are not rejecting the whole society. Caitanya Mahaprabhu rejected everything, iha bahya. Rejected meaning, "I do not take much interest in this." Bahya. "It is external." He was simply interested in the internal, the spiritual. But our duty is that we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that one day they will come to the spiritual platform very easily, paving the way. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu, personality like that, they have nothing to do with this material world. But we are preaching. We are preaching. Therefore we must pave the situation in such a way that gradually they will be promoted to the spiritual plane, which is not required.
Satsvarupa: Varnashrama is not required.
Prabhupada: Not required. Caitanya Mahaprabhu denied, "I am not brahmana, I am not kshatriya, I am not this, I am not this." He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gita, the catur-varnyam maya srstam. So we are Krishna..., preaching Krishna consciousness. It must be done.
Hari-sauri: But in Caitanya Mahaprabhu's practical preaching He only induced them to chant.
Prabhupada: That is not possible for ordinary man.
Hari-sauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hari-sauri: He only introduced just the chanting.
Prabhupada: But who will chant? Who'll chant?
Satsvarupa: But if they won't chant, then neither will they train up in the varnashrama. That's the easiest.
Prabhupada: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Satsvarupa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasada...
Prabhupada: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varnashrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy.
Hari-sauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varnashrama is not possible.
Prabhupada: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop.
Hari-sauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varnashrama and like that.
Prabhupada: Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The... People are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridasa Thakura to chant, it is not possible.
Satsvarupa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also.
Prabhupada: Yes. Thakaha apanara kaje, Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Apanara kaja ki. Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended, sthane sthitah. And if they do not remain in the sthana, then the sahajiya's chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyas also have got the beads and..., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyasa but he was given sannyasa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varnashrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varnashrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world.
> Therefore, if you are a householder, you are in VAD,
> like it or not. You may know that engaging in the duties
> applicable to your station are insufficient to attaining
> Krishna, but you also know that neglecting such duties
> without having the proper qualification (adhikara) means
> creating a disruption in both your material and spiritual
> lives and those of others.
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 1, Ch. 9 TEXT 26]
PURPORT
The varnas are so to speak classifications of different occupations, and asrama-dharma is gradual progress on the path of self realization. Both are interrelated, and one is dependent on the other.
---------------------------------------------
Dear Prabhus
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Have I committed any offenses,
taken any quotes out of context,
made any mistakes, and/or
done anything I shouldn't have?
If so, I'm sorry.
Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,
Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa
Hare Krsna