Dear Gauranga Prema Dasa Prabhu,
Hare Krishna! PAMHO. AGTSP.
Someone gave me your URL set on the topic of Varnasrma and, since I am interested in this topic I would like to find out how far you have progressed thus far in actual implementation of Srila Prabhupada's instructions. I know there has been a debate going on over this ever since Srila Prabhupada arrived in the West, however, my interest is not in hearing anyone's opinions of what should or should not be done but in hearing what has actually been done. I think what Srila Prabhupada wrote was very clear. For example ISKOWP has actually trained some Ox teams and one or two ISKCON farms have grown some vegetables. I am looking for projects that actually have established Varnasrama or have a definite plan and are actually executing the plan. I am looking for Temple Communities that grow their own food vegetables and grains, spin and weave their clothing, manufacture household goods by cottage industry etc.and depend fully on Krishna, the land and the cows. There are many non-vaisnava organizations actually moving in this direction by practical demonstration but when I look around the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya as it is today I see only religiosity, fruitive work, armchair speculation, endless debate and factional fighting over trifles that have no bearing on the remaining 50% of Srila Prabhupada's varnasrama mission. Instead of building varnasrama colleges and communities as instructed I see the devotees squabling over issues such as guru, ritvik, re-initiation, GBC wrongdoings, family abuse, management, copy rights, etc. etc. ad nauseum.
I would be glad to hear about your actual progress in implementing the long list of instructions Srila Prabhupada gave regarding Varnasrama colleges and communities. If you have a detailed plan worked out along with records and reports showing your progress I would be very glad to receive them and incorporate them into the scheme of development I am working on for KaVaCA [The Krishna Varnasrama Cultural Association]. I am presently getting most of my practical training from non-vaisnavas regarding the practical detials such as agricultural methods, spinning, weaving, ceramics, woodwork and so on. It would be nice to have a dialog on these topics with devotees and work with them but so far, as mentioned above, I only find contention and debate when I contact ISKCON or other Gaudiya Vaisnava Organizations.
With best regards in the Varnasrama Mission
Prabhupada dasa Adhikari
KaVaCA
On Dec. 9, 2001, Gauranga Prema Dasa wrote:
Dear Prabhupada Dasa Adhikari Prabhu
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thankyou so much for writing.
On Dec. 8, 2001, You wrote:
> Someone gave me your URL set on the topic of Varnasrama
Interesting. That "someone" wouldn't be Mother Gita by chance, would it? If not, you mean there's someone other than her and yourself out there who has taken an interest in at least taking a look at my website? Anyways, what does it matter as long as there's some others who are interested in the topic of varnasrama-dharma, as I am?
> and, since I am interested in this topic I would like to find out
> how far you have progressed thus far in actual implementation of
> Srila Prabhupada's instructions.
So far I have been running into the same difficulty that you have. As you have correctly pointed out, in so many words, there are obviously a great number of misconceptions floating around out there with regards to the issue of establishing varnasrama-dharma. I do, however, have a lot of, what I am convinced are, divinely inspired ideas, or in other words, what you could also call, imparted instructions, involving a practical plan for introducing this social and spiritual system of cooperation and organization. As you know though, the first step is preaching about it, as exemplified by Srila Prabhupada. He also clearly stated that if you propose a good plan, Krsna will surely help, by providing all the resources and manpower that are needed for the fulfillment of His plan. If you like you can read about the plan I am referring to, which is located at the following website addresses on my website:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/4830/The_Hare_Krsna_Hotel-1.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/4830/The_Hare_Krsna_Hotel-2.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/4830/The_Hare_Krsna_Hotel-3.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/4830/The_Hare_Krsna_Hotel-3A.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/4830/The_Hare_Krsna_Hotel-3B.html
Of course, there's much more to it than this, but I thought I'd just start with presenting these to you, and if your still interested after going through what I have presented thus far I will be more than happy to continue a dialogue about it with you anytime you like.
> I know there has been a debate going on over this
> ever since Srila Prabhupada arrived in the West,
Personally, I often enjoy transcendental debates, and I know from several quotes I have posted in several places on my website that Srila Prabhupada actually encouraged such debates. For example, you will see several of these quotes if you access the following link:
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/varnadharma108/Varnasrama.Debate.2C.html
> however, my interest is not in hearing anyone's opinions of what
> should or should not be done
Nor am I, and I would like to add that I very much appreciate this statement of yours. You will also notice that I have posted an article on my website entitled, "IMHO" to discourage such so-called "humble" opinions, by presenting Srila Prabhupada's strong statements on this issue:
http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Thebes/4830/IMHO.html
> but in hearing what has actually been done.
Unfortunately, as I'm sure you have also noticed, to date, practically nothing has been done with regards to Srila Prabhupada's desire to implement the varnasrama system, which could truly be said to actually be in line with his instructions about how this should be done, although, as you also know, he issued several clear and explicit orders to his followers well over 30 years ago, which appear, for all practical purposes, to have been either misunderstood and/or ignored by many, if not most.
> I think what Srila Prabhupada wrote was very clear. For example
> ISKOWP has actually trained some Ox teams and one or two ISKCON
> farms have grown some vegetables.
Although I agree that the farm communities in the social body of the varnasrama system are very important (as much as the stomach is in the human body) this is certainly not by any stretch of the imagination an area of my expertise, nor do I have any personal interest in getting directly, or in other words, occupationally involved in that area of the social structure.
> I am looking for projects that actually have established Varnasrama
Let me know if you find one. To my knowledge, this has yet to be accomplished. Of course, you know that Srila Prabhupada wants it started in ISKCON.
> or have a definite plan and are actually executing the plan.
The plan that has come to me involves starting an ISKCON project with or without the permission of the so-called representatives of Srila Prabhupada, and as I stated earlier, initially involves a lot of preaching work, which, I might add, has been going on for quite some time now. Prior to his departure to the west, we all know that Srila Prabhupada spent a great deal of time, and also exerted a lot of energy, appealing to his godbrothers, in an attempt to persuade them to cooperate with the wishes of their spiritual master. The plan I am referring to initially involves, or at this point one might say involved, following in the footsteps of Srila Prabhupada's previously mentioned method that he adopted, in dealing with our godbrothers. In pursuance of an instruction I recently received from Srila Prabhupada in a dream, and while considering the statement he wrote in the Bhagavad-gita regarding the fact that history does indeed repeat itself, I do believe that the time has come for me to be engaged in the next step of venturing out to a place where there is currently no ISKCON Temple, in order to begin the implementation of a more practically applicable approach to this apparently perplexing dilemma, which has confused and confounded all those who have not undertaken the task of thoroughly endeavoring to understand the wishes of the Srila Prabhupada by extensively studying this issue in the proper context of all his books, and by approaching the spiritual master directly for further clarification. I intend to arrive, as instructed, in Indianapolis, Indiana early in the upcoming month of January, 2002 for this purpose. Looking forward to continuing this correspondence with you in the near future, that is, if you are so inclined.
Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,
Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa
Hare Krsna
On Dec. 9, 2001, Prabhupada Dasa Adhikari Prabhu wrote:
Dear Gauranga Prema Dasa Prabhu,
Hare Krishna! Please accept my respectful obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you for your response to my original inquiry about your preaching work. It is certainly encouraging to find someone who has come to the stage of implimentation of Srila Prabhupada's varnasrama instructions outside the current structure of ISKCON. My interests are along the same lines and I am gradually meeting a number of devotees who are also in the process of taking constructive action outside the jurisdiction of ISKCON or some other Gaudiya Vaisnava Organization.
My particular understanding is this:
(1) I understand ISKCON to have originally been set up as a corporate expression of Srila Prabhupada's vision and mission. The organization and the vision and mission were originally identical to one another.
(2) The vision and mission or not "Corporate Dependant" but are totally "Vani Dependant". The instructions exist on a totally different plane of existence than the organization and they can be accessed and utilized by anyone.
(3) Over the years the vision and mission originally imparted into ISKCON by Srila Prabhupada have been misunderstood and changed into something else by less intelligent and self-motivated materialists in the guise of vaisnavas.
(4) Devotees who do not see the differences between the vision/mission will suffer cognitive dissonance and post traumatic stress disorder when they see the organization begin to change and move away from what they understood to be the vison/misson. They do not see the subtle vision/mission in the vani but only the gross physical corporate structure.
(5) After the organization changes many followers will fight to maintain the original idea in the corporate form or try to persuade the current leaders to stop making changes not in line with the original vision/mission. Thus we see PADA, VADA and so many splinters looking backward and trying to force the organization from continued change. Many of these devotees are fixated on ISKCON and use that as a source of enthusiasm and sense gratification.
(6) Sastra enjoins one to either give up ones life, offer arguments or go away in the event the Guru or Lord Krishna is offended.
(7) Many devotees will be stuck either in the existing organization, working to change it back or simple become re-absorbed back into the mainstream society from where they came.
(8) Some, as in the case of Paramadvaiti, Tripurari, Narasingha, etc. will take shelter of Srila Prabhupada's peers, such as H.H. Sridhara Swami or their Godcousins like Narayana Maharaja. Unfortunately none of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers or there followers have even the slightest inkling of what his vision and mission are. Out of their efforts come only more confusion and blurring of the devotees understanding. We now see Narayana Maharaja ranging the battle field as a post-ISKCON scavenger who even re-initiates Srila Prabhupada's disciples by calling himself a shiksha shishya of SP!
(9) Over time the entire edifice decays and is turned into a Personality-Cult Sunday-Church Mundane-Religion to which those who can only respond to the Corporate form of the vision/mission adhere. A great offense and disservice is perpetrated upon the word in that the vision and mission seem to be unavailable througn any Corporate expression the suffering masses.
(10) Eventually there emerges a loose network of disciples who actually understand the vision/mission and, in their maturity, carry on the mission under another name.
(11) This network is established on a "Common Plarform Coalition" of Godsiblings who create various Corporate Expressions of the vision/mission and then Federate to form a Global Mission. Srila Prabhupada even mentioned this in a room conversation in LA a year before his departure, that politics would destroy ISKCON but his "true" disciples would carry on the mission.
I have gone through all the post-holocaust changes such as "offering argument" and "going away". I no longer think that "offering arguments" is effective as I see most of my Godsiblings and their followers as people who are pretending to be asleep and consistently demonstrate an unwillingness to wake up. I am not so devout as to "give up my live" so have decided to spend the rest of my life trying to understand the vision/mission and give it some Corporate form for the millions who need it. My position now is that ISKCON as originally conceived by Srila Prabhupada no longer exists in reality and can only be seen in his instructions. I also understand that the original vision/mission is as good as the original ISKCON no matter what its name might be. I am calling the organization I am just now designing KaVaCA, The Krishna Varnasrama Cultural Associaton, and I am taking great pains to make sure it maintains the highest level of fidelity to Srila Prabhupada's instructions, vision and mission.
As I go forward in this work I see more and more that it is actually the will of Srila Prabhupada and more and more I am meeting Godsiblingss and cousins who have been having the same ideas spring up in their minds. I am currently involved with four Godbrothers who are exploring the above ideas with the aim of establishing "missions" outside the purview of ISKCON or any other Vaisnava Organization. My long time friend and Godbrother Dhanesvara dasa Prabhu is moving here in the spring and we will be working hand in hand on this idea. We are encouraging one another along these lines and we keep in touch to exchange ideas that can be beneficial to each of us. At some time in the future I can see this coalition taking place. For example, were you and I to establish a common platform coalition I could direct the people I meet in your area to your Center and likewise from you. With a website out it is inevitable that we start contacting people all around the World. When this happens I shudder at the thought of them going toISKCON or meeting Naranayana Maharaja! If there is a common platform coalition among Godsiblings with a common vision/mission and a corporate form then we can direct the local contacts to one another.
This is basically my only interest in meeting and relating to Godsiblings or others who already know a bit about the Vaisnava way of life. I am no longer into any form of ISKCON debate or contention and only refer to ISKCON by way of citing an example of something. I strictly avoid all those who are still fixated on ISKCON and unable to comprehend the differences between the instructions and the corporate form.When I find a kindred varnasrama soul I immediately try to engage the dialog on the platform of the common coalition idea and also encourage their ISKCON-independant preaching by way of setting up their own corporate entity for their followers.
Since I am now beginning to meet more and more devotees on this same wavelength I am compiling what I call a "Common Platform Coalition Checklist" that covers all the points of similarity and opens the floor to resolve apparent differences. As soon as I have this started I am going to circulate it so it can be added to by others. Over a period of time there will be a global network of devotees subscribing to the same set of agreements.
I will read through all that you have sent me. At the moment I have nothing to send since all of my files are in long hand and I am in the process of putting them on disc. I had a fire a few years ago and all of my books and manuscripts went up in smoke. I just got this computer a few months ago and am scrambling to catch up to the times. For many years I have been supporting myself by selling prasadam and feeding homeless youth. I am applying for a grant here to fund shelter and food, as you are already doing. I think it is a great way to meet potential devotees along with the benediction of taking prasadam. My time is all spent in getting all of my research onto disk and presented as a Constitution, Administrative manual, Varnasrama College curriculum and some books about varnasrama.
Dhanesvara and I will be opening a Rural Cultural Center this spring. This will subsist on book and prasadam distribution, cottage industry and donations. I am eager to find out what your plans are and how they unfold for you as your varnasrama wings spread. I have attached a picture for you. These were taken by Dhanesvara at a Center we were trying to assist in St. Augustine Florida about 80 miles from Alachua. I was invited to go there as a consultant to help get the preaching started but it did not work out for me. I am now here in Vancouver awaiting Dhanesvara's arrival.
With respect
Prabhupada dasa Adhikari
On Dec. 10, 2001, Gauranga Prema Dasa wrote:
Dear Prabhupada Dasa Adhikari Prabhu
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thankyou so much for responding so quickly. The pictures were a nice touch. Makes things a little more personal. Sorry I can't do the same at this time, as my constant traveling up til now has prevented me from setting up a computer of my own, therefore I have been using the internet at the University or City Libraries wherever I go.
I have a lot of respect for Dhanesvara Prabhu, however I do not believe the feeling is very mutual. Of course, I was in a completely different mood (with the emphasis on the word different, as I'm sure he will vouch for) back then, when I stayed for a short time at the Vancouver ISKCON Temple, while he was the temple president, and I'm quite sure this greatly attributed to his perception of me. He once asked me to put my "vision" into writing. Maybe you would like to inform him, when you see him, that I have taken his instruction to heart and have done just that. If he would like to see it at this time he can access the same links I sent you. I haven't seen him for years now, however I'm sorry to say that when I saw him last I wasn't very impressed with the ideas he had at the time about how certain areas of the varnasrama system should be structured and established.
I agree with your perception of the present condition of ISKCON and with the statements you made about all the other organizations outside of ISKCON, as well as about all of the individuals you also mentioned. From several quotes presented on my website I have learned that Srila Prabhupada wants varnasrama-dharma started in ISKCON, however, as you have correctly noted, most, if not all, of the current leaders, along with their respective followers, are neither receptive to hearing about, or are willing to adopt, the instructions graciously imparted by His Divine Grace regarding this issue or for that matter practically any other. Naturally, this problem presents an apparent dilemma for sincere souls like your good self who want very much to follow all of Srila Prabhupada's instructions without any deviation, because we all know that Srila Prabhupada wants ISKCON to be successful. As you may recall, he even stated that he wants there to be one government ruling the world, and that he wants it to be run by ISKCON. You may also recall reading in the Third Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam that anyone who goes outside of ISKCON and thinks that they are going to become Krsna conscious is living in a hallucination. If it hadn't of been for the temple president of the Regina ISKCON Center (named Jai Rama Prabhu) I might still be perplexed about how to resolve this so-called problem. Of course, I wouldn't want to simply imitate Srila Prabhupada who was instructed by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati to preach in the West, regardless of whether or not he had the cooperation of his godbrothers, so what's the solution? What alternative do we have in the present time, place and under the present set of circumstances? While considering the advice of Jai Rama Prabhu and the confirmation received from Srila Prabhupada in what I am for several reasons convinced was a transcendental dream, and after completing some investigation into the matter, it has become quite clear that we can, in fact, form a "corporation," as you call it, and legally submit the required documentation for a non-profit organization under the auspices of the name ISKCON INC., with or, as I have stated previously, without the permission of any other so-called authority in the movement. Then, once we have set the example by establishing this precedent, we can expect others in the movement to follow, by either doing the same or by introducing and implementing at least a similar, or rather, preferably identical standard in their own centers, and for those who don't I have often meditated on several proposals, based exclusively on instructions I have duly received from those whom I consider higher authorities that I have many reasons to believe are divinely inspired "ideas" which have been transcendentally revealed to me, involving practical means to persuade them, bearing in mind that our vision/mission, as you have put it, is to be instrumentally engaged in transforming the whole world into Rama-Rajya, or in words, the Kingdom of Krsna [God] on Earth, and this obviously involves everyone (including the rascal, so called representatives of Srila Prabhupada) becoming Krsna/God conscious, either expediently or at least eventually. Wouldn't you agree?
Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,
Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa
Hare Krsna
On Dec. 10, 2001, Gauranga Prema Dasa wrote:
Dear Prabhupada Dasa Adhikari Prabhu
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
P.S. Remember when Srila Prabhupada left India his intension was always to return after making disciples in the west, to show those who would not listen to him that they were wrong. Similarly, in our humble attempt to follow in the footsteps of the spiritual master, within the confines of his instructions which were imparted, and are therefore applicable, to all his followers, we certainly would not want to altogether abandon the work he has done with no intension of ever revitalizing and reviving his efforts, even if it means that there needs to be a certain amount of destruction prior to a concrete, tangible and substantial reconstruction. It may simply, initially require a little regrouping, huddling and repositioning of those who sincerely wish to proceed in a more organized fashion, by utilizing the only effective method of organization and cooperation there is, which was taught to us by His Divine Grace, Srila Prabhupada, and which is respectively known as the daivi or divine varnasrama system. As I'm sure you are aware of, Srila Prabhupada taught that, individually, we are all like little sticks that can be easily broken, but if those sticks are bundled together properly no one can possibly break them. I am firmly convinced that there's still more than just hope of a fighting chance to become instrumental in ultimately building on what Srila Prabhupada worked so hard to create. It is said that even the most insignificant instrument in the hands of the expert craftsman can work wonders and perform miracles, and like lord Jesus said, if we have just a mustard seed of faith we could move mountains. In every one of Krsna's pastimes I'm sure you've noticed that the odds are always against the righteous. Now, I can empathize with your frustration in trying to tackle the entire movement single handedly, and I'm sure that if Krsna and Srila Prabhupada actually wanted any one of us to succeed on our own in this way there would certainly be no problem for Krsna to accomplish this, however we know that they want us to cooperate, not with the nonsense per say, but rather, together with them, and all of us who are duely willing to do that should, or rather will, inevitably be brought together to stand and fight this nonsense corruption of our organization.
Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,
Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa
Hare Krsna
On Dec. 10, 2001, Prabhupada Dasa Adhikari Prabhu wrote:
Dear Gauranga Prema Dasa Prabhu,
Hare Krishna! PAMHO. AGTSP.
I don't agree with you that all of Srila Prabhupada's vision and mission can only be carried out through ISKCON. How is that possible, ISKCON is a total mess and is not capable of even following the basics of proper maintenance? My firm conclusion is that any individual who strictly follows Srila Prabhupada's instructions is a living embodiment of all he ever dreamed of for ISKCON. I am a firm supporter of the vision and mission being seperate and seperable from the corporate form. I don not have enough time left in my life to remain emotionally wrapped up in trying to save the present day ISKCON by constant debate hair splitting and endless attacks on the members and leaders. I feel firmly that much more can be done by taking the instructions of Srila Pabhupada to those who will listen and follow. As far as I can see ISKCON no longer exists physically as it did in the beginning and all that is left now is a shadow. If ISKCON exists at all it is in the subtle form of instructions or in the form of individuals who actually follow the instructions. I wish you the best of luck in your preaching efforts and I sincerely hope that you are empowered to make thousands of new devotees and engage them in bringing Srila Prabhupadas mission to as many as possible.
Prabhupada Dasa Adhikari.
---------------------------------------------
Dear Prabhus
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Have I committed any offenses,
taken any quotes out of context,
made any mistakes, and/or
done anything I shouldn't have?
If so, I'm sorry.
Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,
Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa
Hare Krsna