From: Mahaksa dasa
> well said, Prtha dd. VAD is a process for other ages,
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/4830/Varnasrama_Debate-2D.html
> the last one (dvarpa Yuga) is where it all
> broke down and VAD, especially ksatriya
> dharma, was even cursed by all the
> ksatriyas who were forced by
> regulative principles to
> engage in horrible
> fratracide.
Kali 5100 website:
The Collapse of Dharma
The entire world originally lived as part of the enlightened Vedic culture consisting of the four-fold divisions of human society known as the varnasrama-dharma system. At the beginning of this age, this sublime culture began to deteriorate. It all started when the personality of Kali influenced a brahmana boy to misuse his brahminical power by inappropriately cursing a saintly king, setting in motion the corruption of the entire brahmana order and eventually the social order of the entire world:
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 1, Ch. 18 TEXT 37]
PURPORT
Thus the beginning of the misuse of brahminical power began, and gradually the brahmanas in the age became devoid of both brahminical powers and culture. The brahmana boy considered Maharaja Pariksit to be a kulangara, or the wretched of the dynasty, but factually the brahmana boy himself was so because only from him did the brahmana caste become powerless, like the snake whose poisoned teeth are broken. The snake is fearful as long as his poison teeth are there, otherwise he is fearful only to children. The personality of Kali conquered the brahmana boy first, and gradually the other castes. Thus the whole scientific system of the orders of society in this age has assumed the formed of a vitiated caste system, which is now being uprooted by another class of men similarly influenced by the age of Kali. One should see to the root cause of the vitiation and not try to condemn the system as it is, without knowledge of its scientific value.
The recent manifestations of this degradation are vividly described by Ravindra-svarupa dasa:
Ravindra-svarupa dasa, "Manifesto for a Politics of Transcendence" in Encounter with the Lord of the Universe, 1983:
The society of medieval Europe had a purportedly God-centered civilization with its four orders of clergy (brahmanas), feudal lords (ksatriyas), bourgeois (vaisyas), and serfs (sudras). For a time at least, the European kings required priestly sanction to rule; they were crowned by the pontiff. Yet this was only a rather primitive approximation of varnasrama dharma. The brahmanas never came to a sufficiently high standard of purity, and when they became corrupt, the civilization lost what spiritual vision it had, and the whole system crumbled. And it is still crumbling.
For the collapsing of the primitive medieval varnasrama-dharma has taken more than five-hundred years, and it constitutes all of our modern European history. It began with the corruption of the brahmanas. When the brahmanas became tainted by worldly ambition, they lose their moral and spiritual authority--the only power they ever possess--and the ksatriyas began to see them as worldly princes on the same level as themselves. There is no longer any justification for brahminical preeminence, and therefore the ksatriyas break lose from brahminical domination, a social revolution epitomized in Europe by the Protestant Reformation. Without brahminical direction and restraint, the ksatriyas rapidly lose self-control and become intolerable tyrants. No longer can they justify their sovereignty by divine sanction. The vaisyas therefore rebel against the oppression of a corrupt and useless nobility, an upheaval epitomized by the French Revolution. The clever and enterprising vaisyas come to life, accumulate capital, build up industry and commerce and, in their untrammeled greed for profit, ruthlessly exploit the sudras, who mount their own rebellion, an upheaval exemplified by the communist revolution.
...we have formed our ideas of society, class and their relations on the basis of a society in various stages of progressive decay or collapse, and we are now living through the terminal stage of that collapse...We see the conflict between the left and the right, the communists (sudras) and the capitalists (vaisyas), as the terminus of a long process of social decay, and neither side, therefore, has any real future, any real hope of creating a just and sound society.
Both are rooted in the past and are expressions of social putrefaction. Certainly, European and American society in the twentieth century has become fatally infected by vaisya values run amok. But sudra values run amok are no improvement. As a totally materialistic philosophy, communism fosters rather than eliminates the seeds of exploitation and conflict, encouraging the very conditions it seeks to ameliorate.
Consequently, under communism there will never be a society free from domination of one group by another, of the many by the few, and that domination will be carried on by the most brutal means possible. Both capitalist and communist ideologies are products of exploitation and envy, and neither therefore can hope to eliminate them. They cannot offer release from the process of social degeneration because they are created by it, and the conflict between the two will merely insure, one way or another, the eventual destruction of civilization.
> The sanatana dharma is expressed in this age
> by the samkirtana yajna, all false identifications
> of the body are forsaken in favor of performing
> samkirtana.
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 1, TEXT 19 Ch. 4]
PURPORT
The life of a human being is a chance to prepare oneself to go back to Godhead, or to get rid of the material existence, the repetition of birth and death. Thus in the system of varnasrama-dharma every man and woman is trained for this purpose. In other words the system of varnasrama-dharma is also known as sanatana-dharma, or the eternal occupation. The system of varnasrama-dharma prepares a man for going back to Godhead.
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 7, TEXT 11 Ch. 2]
PURPORT
The eternal occupational duty can be organized through the institution of varnasrama, in which there are four varnas (brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra) and four asramas...
> Srila Haridasa Thakura, due to kali
> produced circumstance, was unable
> to be a part of VAD due to birth
> in the muslim sector, yet Sri
> Chaitanya Mahaprabhu refers to
> Him as Namacarya, caretaker of
> the Holy Names of the Lord.
THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 118:
In India, the varnasrama system has now been taken in a perverted way, and thus a man born in the family of a brahmana (the highest social order) claims that he should be accepted as a brahmana. But this claim is not accepted by the sastra (scripture). One's forefather may have been a brahmana according to gotra, or the family hereditary order, but real varnasrama-dharma is based on the factual quality one has attained, regardless of birth or heredity. Therefore, we are not preaching the present-day system of the Hindus...
Srila Haridasa Thakura is a bona fide spiritual master, and therefore the leader of all varnas and asramas. He is also Lord Brahma. It would behoove us not to imitate him.
Room Conversation, February 14, 1977, Mayapur:
"Varnashrama System Must Be Introduced"
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu denied, "I am not brahmana, I am not kshatriya, I am not this, I am not this." He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gita, the catur-varnyam maya srstam. So we are Krishna..., preaching Krishna consciousness. It must be done.
Hari-sauri: But in Caitanya Mahaprabhu's practical preaching He only induced them to chant.
Prabhupada: That is not possible for ordinary man.
Hari-sauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hari-sauri: He only introduced just the chanting.
Prabhupada: But who will chant? Who'll chant?
Satsvarupa: But if they won't chant, then neither will they train up in the varnashrama. That's the easiest.
Prabhupada: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Satsvarupa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasada...
Prabhupada: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varnashrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy.
Hari-sauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varnashrama is not possible.
Prabhupada: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop.
Hari-sauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varnashrama and like that.
Prabhupada: Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The... People are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridasa Thakura to chant, it is not possible.
Satsvarupa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also.
Prabhupada: Yes. Thakaha apanara kaje, Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Apanara kaja ki. Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended, sthane sthitah. And if they do not remain in the sthana, then the sahajiya's chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyas also have got the beads and..., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyasa but he was given sannyasa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varnashrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do.
> Srila Prabhupada's desire is that we "always
> try to make the best use of a bad bargain",
> so if we find ourselves in an area where
> practicle application of some of the
> principles of VAD can produce
> favorable results in regard to
> our practice of Krsna Consciousness,
> by all means we accept this process,
> but if not, it can be rejected.
> Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 301, 1974:
Srila Prabhupada: ...everywhere in each center this system should be introduced, and there must be practical application of varnasrama. At the same time this program of devotional service.
Room Conversation, February 14, 1977, Mayapur:
"Varnashrama System Must Be Introduced"
Prabhupada: To save them by Krishna consciousness, we have to keep this ideal at least, varnashrama, that "Here is the position."
Hari-sauri: At this time should we try to introduce it in our centers or not?
Prabhupada: Always we shall try. Human society will be always there. We have to serve them, para-upakara. We have to keep them in the right position.
Hari-sauri: I just remember two or three years ago there was a thing... A pamphlet came out about introducing the varnashrama system in the society, but actually nothing came of it.
Prabhupada: Yes. That time was not right. Now you can do something.
Movie: Final Lesson, November, 1977:
Srila Prabhupada: Establish varnasrama-dharma.
---------------------------------------------
Dear Prabhus
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Have I committed any offenses,
taken any quotes out of context,
made any mistakes, and/or
done anything I shouldn't have?
If so, I'm sorry.
Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,
Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa
Hare Krsna