Date: Fri, Apr 30 1999 15:30
From: Prtha Devi Dasi
> On 29 Apr 1999, Mahaksa dasa wrote:
> > Haribol, Prtha dd, no need debate, what you say is
> > quite accurate. VAD is not the all in all, especially
> > when everyone is of the sudra (max) level,
THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 223:
Kalau sudra-sambhavah: In this age practically all men are sudras. . . but to maintain social order you have to train some of the sudras to become brahmanas.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 300:
Srila Prabhupada: For the management of affairs we require to divide. Those who are fit for management and protection they should be trained as ksatriya.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 16 pg. 265 & 266, October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupada: Yes. So you make that four orders, and then society will be in order. But you are not taking Krsna's advice. You are manufacturing your hellish ideas.
Harikesa: No, I was just wondering how one would be able to see who was acting in a certain way unless they were first engaged in something. They have to be doing some activity...
Prabhupada: No, no.
Harikesa: ...so you can see what kind of quality they have.
Prabhupada: No, no. Take "everyone is rascal," then train them. That is wanted. Take everyone as rascal. There is no question that "Here is intelligent man, here is rascal, here is the..." No. First of all take them all rascals, and then train them. That is wanted. That is wanted now. At the present moment the whole world is full of rascals. Now, if they take to Krsna consciousness, select amongst them. Just like I am training. You are brahmana by training. So one who is prepared to be trained as brahmana, classify him in the brahmana. One is trained up as ksatriya, classify him. In this way, catur-varnyam maya srs...
Harikesa: And that ksatriya would engage everyone basically as sudra and then pick from them.
Prabhupada: Hm.?
Harikesa: He would initially pick...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. You pick up... You take the whole mass of people as sudra. Then...
Harikesa: Pick out.
Prabhupada: Pick out. And rest, who is neither brahmana nor ksatriya nor vaisya, then he is sudra. That's all, very easy thing.
THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 211:
Some sudras may be given technical education, but most sudras should work on the farms. . . . . Everyone should be tested to find out which education he is suited for.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 8 pg. 321, 1974:
Dr. Patel: Here you have got brahmanas also.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
> > To become truely Vaisnava means that the social orders are
> > transcended in favor of serving the Supreme Lord.
> > Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 302:
Srila Prabhupada: Vaisnava is transcendental, but for proper management of the material world, one should be acting like a brahmana, one should be acting like a ksatriya. That is required. If need be he has to act as ksatriya or a sudra. It doesn't matter. But manage, for management the division must be there. Otherwise it will be mismanagement.
> > PS there are many quotes to verify both sides,
> > so the quoters may engage in useless debate,
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 6, Ch. 16 TEXT 41]
PURPORT
Bhagavat-dharma has no contradictions.
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 2, Ch. 6 TEXT 34]
PURPORT
...sometimes the declaration of Govinda Himself may seem contradictory to mundane creatures, but the mundaner will never find any contradiction in the words of the Lord's devotees. The devotees are especially protected by the Lord so that they may remain infallible.
> Thankyou Prabhu. I might be a little defensive because
> Mahalaksmi has been writing me, telling me I am going to hell
> because I preach the way I do about Varnahsrama dharma. I told
> her I am not against it, I am merely aginst it when practiced
> according to the caste system and I am against it when it is
> presented as superior to transcendental Krishna Conscious
> teachings.
> YS, Prtha dd
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/4830/Varnasrama_Debate-4.html
---------------------------------------------
Dear Prabhus
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Have I committed any offenses,
taken any quotes out of context,
made any mistakes, and/or
done anything I shouldn't have?
If so, I'm sorry.
Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,
Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa
Hare Krsna