On 29 Oct 1998, Nikhilananda dasa wrote:

> To answer your question, before we can establish any
> socio economic system there must obviously be
> 1.) a society and
> 2.) an economy, or else it is just day dreaming.

Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 16 pg. 265 & 266, October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupada: No, no, beginning, Krsna. Why don't you read Bhagavad-gita? You don't know?

Harikesa: No, no. Yes.

Prabhupada: What is the social arrangement? What is that?

Harikesa: That Krsna created the four orders.

Prabhupada: Yes. So you make that four orders, and then society will be in order. But you are not taking Krsna's advice. You are manufacturing your hellish ideas.

Harikesa: No, I was just wondering how one would be able to see who was acting in a certain way unless they were first engaged in something. They have to be doing some activity...

Prabhupada: No, no.

Harikesa: ...so you can see what kind of quality they have.

Prabhupada: No, no. Take "everyone is rascal," then train them. That is wanted. Take everyone as rascal. There is no question that "Here is intelligent man, here is rascal, here is the..." No. First of all take them all rascals, and then train them. That is wanted. That is wanted now. At the present moment the whole world is full of rascals. Now, if they take to Krsna consciousness, select amongst them. Just like I am training. You are brahmana by training. So one who is prepared to be trained as brahmana, classify him in the brahmana. One is trained up as ksatriya, classify him. In this way, catur-varnyam maya srs...

Harikesa: And that ksatriya would engage everyone basically as sudra and then pick from them.

Prabhupada: Hm.?

Harikesa: He would initially pick...

Prabhupada: No, no, no. You pick up... You take the whole mass of people as sudra. Then...

Harikesa: Pick out.

Prabhupada: Pick out. And rest, who is neither brahmana nor ksatriya nor vaisya, then he is sudra. That's all, very easy thing. If he cannot be trained up as engineer, then he remains as a common man. There is no force. This is the way of organizing society.

Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 303:

Atreya Rsi: So in our movement the leaders must decide how every devotee and every resource is engaged properly.

Prabhupada: That is leadership. That is leadership, which man is fitted for which work.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 1, Ch. 2, TEXT 2]

PURPORT

Ultimately the aim of varnasrama-dharma is to turn a crude man into a pure devotee of the Lord.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 3, Ch. 28 TEXT 2]

PURPORT

One should seek out a bona fide spiritual master and surrender unto him, for by inquiring from and worshiping him one can learn spiritual activities. As long as we have this material body there are various duties prescribed for us. Such duties are divided by a system of four social orders: brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra...

THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 211:

Everyone should be tested to find out which education he is suited for. Some sudras may be given technical education, but most sudras should work on the farms.

Prabhu, the varnasrama system is a completely self sufficient, self sustaining, opulent system, in and of itself. It doesn't require any mental speculation or outside help. If we organize society according to the principles of varnasrama-dharma, everything and everyone, regardless of race, religion, social status, nationality, age, mental capacity and/or stability will be taken care of, spiritually, and as YOU say, materially, automatically. There will be no need to engage in any vikarmi occupation, or to make ANY endeavor to increase one's wealth, independent of engagement individually and collectively in the system outlined by the Supreme Personality, who has kindly imparted every detail of what we need to know, through the transparent, transcendental, pure via-medium of the guru. This knowledge is confirmed and also outlined in detail by the scriptures (sastras) and sadhus (saints). EVERYONE will be taken care of according to their desires, based on their psychophysical make-up, nature, qualities, potentials, propensities, tendencies, skills, the way we are influenced by the three modes of material nature, or not influenced, as the case may be. All this will be taken into consideration when designating and engaging everybody, without exception, in direct or indirect service to the Supreme Personality and His devotees. The system, in and of itself is sufficient to organize society in such a way that there is inevitably peace, prosperity and inconceivable happiness. By simply adhering to this divine system, everyone involved becomes completely satisfied, happy and continuously makes progress on the progressive march back home, back to the kingdom of God, which is non-different from the kingdom of God on Earth (Rama-Rajya). Srila Prabhupada has stated that we could have this immediately, even in this age of Kali... providing we are serious about following the instructions of the guru, sastra and sadhus. The Supreme Lord Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the guru, and every true sadhu have instructed us to introduce and establish the daiva or divine varnasrama-dharma system...immediately, if not sooner! This has also been confirmed by all the revealed scriptures. Of this, there can be no doubt.

> 1.)A society again consists of its members and they
> should first be properly trained in rational and ethical
> spiritual values and receive a solid and proper material
> and spiritual education.

Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 313:

(RE: Varnasrama-College)

Srila Prabhupada: First of all varna, then asrama. When varna is perfectly in order then asrama. Asrama is specifically meant for spiritual advancement, and varna is general division.

> If we have not even yet properly been able to control
> problems like child abuse etc no social system in the whole
> universe will make even for our deficiency. Rather we will
> multiply and expand our deficiencies and seriously collide
> with the rest of the world.

THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 212 & 213:

Srila Prabhupada: If the leaders are properly trained, there cannot be tyranny.

BTG: But one of the premises of the American system of government is that if a leader has too much power, he will inevitably become corrupt.

Srila Prabhupada: You have to train him in such a way that he cannot become corrupt!

BTG: What is that training process?

Srila Prabhupada: That training is the varnasrama-dharma. Divide the society according to quality and train people in the principle that everything belongs to God and should be used in the service of God.

Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 300:

Srila Prabhupada: For the management of affairs we require to divide. Those who are fit for management and protection they should be trained as ksatriya . . . so in our society this division should be there.

> In Slovenia devotees have held continous training sessions
> on all aspects of social communication and spiritual human
> ethics for the last 7 years or more with the result that an
> actual society is organically growing. The congregation is
> very well trained and the devotees there are in my opinion
> among the best well behaved and reasonable ones in the
> whole world. They are very dedicated and they create a
> whole new society based on the temple s congregations in
> the capital and several other towns in the country. For
> this they do not need to introduce formal varna
> designations at this time but whenever practical.

Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 16 pg. 265 & 266, October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

> In my opinion the question of varna qualities etc comes
> only up in job related issues. For this one first has to
> have a job. For this one first has to have a job. It is
> that simple and not at all a subject for endless general
> theorizing and writing mystical essays. The training is
> first class and the priority is on development of basic
> Vaishnava qualities. The Vaishnava qualities as taught by
> Srila Prabhupada are most practical and will benefit all
> the varnas and asramas. A lot of focus is given to
> improvement of jappa etc. The training and work shop
> sessions will have to be continously improved by practical
> experiences.

> No one expects paradise on earth in Slovenia. It is
> reasonable not to create such over expectations or to
> underestimate the practical problems of devotees in this
> age of kali, in any situation of life.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 9, Ch. 10]

TEXT 53

When Lord Ramacandra the Supreme Personality of Godhead was the king of this world, all bodily and mental suffering, disease, old age, bereavement, lamentation, distress, fear and fatigue were completely absent. There was even no death for those who did not want it.

PURPORT

A similar situation could be introduced immediately, even in this age of Kali.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 9, Ch. 10 TEXT 51]

PURPORT

Among the four yugas - Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali, the Kali-yuga is the worst, but if the process of varnasrama-dharma is introduced, even in this age of Kali, the situation of Satya-yuga can be invoked. The Hare Krsna movement is meant for this purpose.

> 2.)An -economy- requires means of income and capital. That
> is also not there often among devotees around the world.

BHAGAVAD-GITA 6.17

PURPORT

As far as work is concerned, a Krsna conscious person does not do anything which is not connected with Krsna's interest.

BHAGAVAD-GITA INTRODUCION:

We are temporarily engaged in different activities, but all these can be purified when we give up all these temporary activities and take up the activities which are prescribed by the Supreme Lord. That is called our pure life. (Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 303: Atreya Rsi: So in our movement the leaders must decide how every devotee and every resource is engaged properly. Srila Prabhupada: That is leadership. That is leadership, which man is fitted for which work).

BHAGAVAD-GITA 18.6

PURPORT

All sacrifices which are meant for material advancement in life should be given up.

BHAGAVAD-GITA 18.66

PURPORT

There is no need of thinking how one should keep the body and soul together. Krsna will see to that.

Srila Prabhupada Lilamrta Vol. 6 pg. 232:

The temple is managed by Srimati Radharani, Laksmiji, so why should there be want? Our philosophy is, if anybody comes let him take prasad, chant Hare Krsna, and be happy. Everything is being supplied by Krsna. Krsna is not poor, so why should we deny them? This should be done at any cost. There is no difficulty. It simply requires nice mangement. At the end of the day you may sell or give away. If we believe that Krsna is providing for and maintaining everyone, then why should we be misers? This means losing faith in Krsna and thinking that we are the doers and suppliers. We are confident Krsna will supply! Let the whole world come. We can feed them. So please do this nicely. Begin at once.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 7, Ch. 13 TEXT 34]

PURPORT

We recommend that as soon as money accumulates in our Krsna consciousness movement, fifty percent of it should be invested in printing books, and fifty percent for expenditures, especially in establishing centers all over the world. The managers of the Krsna consciousness movement should be extremely cautious in regard to this point. Otherwise money will be the cause of lamentation, illusion, fear, anger, material attachment, material poverty and unnecessary hard work. Whatever money is collected should be spent for Krsna and not a farthing for sense gratification.

BHAGAVAD-GITA INTRODUCTION:

...the whole purpose of Bhagavad-gita is to revive our sanatana occupation, or sanatana-dharma, which is the eternal occupation of the living entity.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 7, Ch. 11 TEXT 2]

PURPORT

The eternal occupational duty can be organized through the institution of varnasrama, in which there are four varnas (brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra) and four asramas...

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 3, Ch. 22 TEXT 7]

PURPORT

The real fact is that a bona fide spiritual master knows the nature of a particular man and what sort of duties he can perform in Krsna consciousness, and he instructs him in that way.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 3, Ch. 28 TEXT 2]

PURPORT

When organized in this way everything is taken care of. All necessities of life are provided for; each member of society is satisfied in accordance with needs AND desires and everybody progresses spiritually.

> Speculations about a mysterious world world destruction
> and other new age phantasies will not help to generate this
> economical basis.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 7, Ch. 15 TEXT 71]

PURPORT

The Hare Krsna movement is not a new movement as people sometimes mistakenly think. The Hare Krsna movement is present in every millennium of Lord Brahma's life, and the holy name is chanted in all the higher planetary systems, including Brahmaloka and Chandraloka, not to speak of Gandharvaloka and Apsaraloka. The sankirtana movement that was started five hundred years ago by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is therefore not a new movement. Sometimes, because of our bad luck, this movement is stopped, but Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His servants again start the movement for the benefit of the entire world or, indeed, the entire universe.

> We have to create a whole solid culture in this regard.
> Srila Prabhupada was very realistic and never under
> estimated the need of money for carrying on a world wide
> movement. But he also emphsized that even money is given
> when Krishna is pleased through the devotee s behaving in
> a disciplined and honest, virtous manner. Cooperation and
> self sufficiency go very well together. Farms and villages
> are of course also good places to build communities but
> onöly if devotes can generate enough income ther and know
> what they are doing. We already have more than enough farm
> properties etc which simply lie vacant. So that is not the
> point to start with. The above concepts and generatinga VAd
> culture is not dependent on buying mor land. a complete
> illusion.

> Devotees who become "Bhaktas" should be encouraged to
> finish their material education while they are bhaktas and
> there are also other importat things in this onnection. In
> Slovenia these principles have been followed for at leat
> the last 5 years and the results are very encouraging.

Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 16 pg. 266, October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Anyone can take education as a brahmana or a ksatriya, as a vaisya. There is no... Vaisya doesn't require any education. Ksatriyas require little. Brahmana require. But that is free. Just find out a brahmana guru and he will give you free education.

> The students who are practicing devotees also have their
> own rented houses and live together in groups of 5 to ten.

BHAGAVAD-GITA 8.28

PURPORT

A brahmacari has to live in the home of the spiritual master.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 10, Ch. 2 TEXT 32]

PURPORT

One must worship the lotus feet of the acarya and live within the society of devotees.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 11, Ch. 2 TEXT 50]

PURPORT

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta has emphasized that those seriously interested in achieving the perfection of Krsna consciousness must live in a community of vaisnavas. Srila Prabhupada has also mentioned several times in his literatures that it is not possible to achieve the stage of perfect Krsna consciousness unless one accepts the shelter of pure devotees by living in the Krsna conscious communities being established all over the world by the International Society for Krsna Consciousness. . . . . Devotees in the grhasta order can also take shelter of the vaisnava community by regularly attending temple functions.

> For this proper awareness of how to communicate and live
> together is important. They learn team work and tolerance
> duringb their student time. The temple also helps to
> organize group journeys for the students, we found that
> such group experiences of no stress but simply being
> together for a day or two on the ocean side or going on a
> mountain walk can really help much to make the group feel
> like a unit and we hope that they feel connected like that
> for their whole life, even when they have their own homes
> and families.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 7, Ch. 15] Instructions for Civilized Human Beings

TEXT 71

ekada deva-satre tu
  gadharvapsarasam ganah
upahuta visva-srgbhir
  hari-gathopagayane

ekada - once upon a time; deva-satre - in an assembly of the demigods; tu indeed; gandharva - of the inhabitants of Gandharvaloka; apsarasam - and the inhabitants of Apsaraloka; ganah - all; upahutah - were invited; visva-srgbhih - by the great demigods known as the prajapatis; hari-gatha-upagayane - on the occasion of kirtana for glorifying the Supreme Lord.

TRANSLATION

Once there was a sankirtana festival to glorify the Supreme Lord in an assembly of the demigods, and the Gandharvas and Apsaras were invited by the prajapatis to take part in it.

TEXT 72

PURPORT

As far as kirtana is concerned, the sastras say, sravanam kirtanam visnoh: one should chant the glories of the Supreme Lord and the holy name of the Supreme Lord. This is clearly stated. Sravanam kirtanam visnoh: one should chant about and glorify Lord Visnu...

But here we find that millions and millions of years ago, when Narada Muni was a Ghandarva, he neglected the order to glorify the Lord, and, he began to chant otherwise. Thus he was cursed to become a sudra. His first offense was that he went to join the sankirtana party in the company of lusty women, and another offense was that he considered ordinary songs, like cinema songs and other such songs, to be equal to sankirtana. For this offense he was punished with becoming a sudra.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 1, Ch. 22 TEXT 2]

PURPORT

Ultimately the aim of varnasrama-dharma is to turn a crude man into a pure devotee of the Lord.

> Oh yes, the grihastas who work also meet regularly in
> their homes. Brahminical, senior devotees act as mentors
> and councellors for the others. each new congregational
> member has a personal mentor after some time, an
> experienced devotee who is always there for them whenever
> they need advice or a talk. all this already works very
> well, without too much emphasis on labels.

Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 16 pg. 265 & 266, October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupada: Now, if they take to Krsna consciousness, select amongst them. Just like I am training. You are brahmana by training. So one who is prepared to be trained as brahmana, classify him in the brahmana. One is trained up as ksatriya, classify him. In this way, catur-varnyam maya srs...

> To me it seems like VAd means building something like a
> network of large families, like previously people used to
> live in the same village as an extended family. All this
> is of course not dependent on an existing village or place
> but can be cultivated everywhere. It is more a matter of
> personal attention and training. if you want to start VAd,
> just turn off your PC, step outside and start listening to
> the concerns and problems of other devotes, with a view to
> help but even more to learn.

THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 61:

Some spiritual teachers say, "In my opinion you should do this," but this is not a guru. Such so-called gurus are simply rascals.

> You may give careful advice based on varna and vaishnava
> character qualities and virtues like trustworthyness,
> honesty etc. Then the mode of goodness wil increase,
> problems will be less and the purpose of VAd is served for
> the benefit of advancing God consciousness.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 1, Ch. 22 TEXT 2]

PURPORT

Ultimately the aim of varnasrama-dharma is to turn a crude man into a pure devotee of the Lord.

> All this cannot just be done in a few years and by
> legislation but it has to grow organically and within
> the respective countries environmen and culture.

Fortunate Souls pg. 477:

"But if we accept the principle of varna and asrama as they are recommended in the sastra, and if we push on the Krsna consciousness movement, and if we push on the Krsna consciousness movement, surely everyone will be engaged in his occupation. In Delhi, Nandaji said that immediately these things cannot be introduced, but I think it can be introduced immediately without any loss of time, provided you are serious about it."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to Prabhakar, May 31, 1975)

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 9, Ch. 10]

TEXT 53

PURPORT

A similar situation could be introduced immediately, even in this age of Kali.

> We cannot just demand that everyone now take up a Hindu
> caste system.

THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 122:

It is this divine varnasrama-dharma that Krsna recommends, not the caste system as it is understood today. This modern caste system is now condemned in India also, and it should be condemned, for the classification of different types of men according to birth is not the Vedic or the divine caste system.

There are many classes of men in society - some men are engineers, some are medical practitioners, some are chemists, tradesmen, businessmen, and so on. These varieties of classes are not to be determined by birth, however, but by quality. No such thing as the caste-by-birth system is sanctioned by the Vedic literature, nor do we accept it. We have nothing to do with the caste system, which is also at present being rejected by the public in India.

THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 118 & 119:

India's actual culture is described in the Bhagavad-gita, where it is stated that according to the different qualities or modes of nature there are different types of men, who are generally classified into four social orders and four spiritual orders. This system of social and spiritual division is known as varnasrama-dharma. The four varnas, or social orders, are brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, and sudra. The four asramas, or spiritual orders, are brahmacarya, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa. The varnasrama system is described in the Vedic scriptures known as the Puranas. The goal of this institution of Vedic culture is to educate every man for advancement in knowledge of Krsna, or God. That is the entire Vedic program.

When Lord Caitanya talked with the great devotee Ramananda Raya, the Lord asked him, "What is the basic principle of human life?" Ramananda Raya answered that human civilization begins when varnasrama-dharma is accepted. Before coming to the standard of varnasrama-dharma there is no question of human civilization. Therefore, the Krsna consciousness movement is trying to establish this right system of human civilization, which is known as Krsna consciousness, or daiva-varnasrama - divine culture.

In India, the varnasrama system has now been taken in a perverted way, and thus a man born in the family of a brahmana (the highest social order) claims that he should be accepted as a brahmana. But this claim is not accepted by the sastra (scripture). One's forefather may have been a brahmana according to gotra, or the family hereditary order, but real varnasrama-dharma is based on the factual quality one has attained, regardless of birth or heredity. Therefore, we are not preaching the present-day system of the Hindus...

> In other words we cannot just claim to come up with all
> the perfect solutions from the beginning and then implement
> it "by lobbying etc "That is not realistic. We may have to
> be somewaht flexible and learn through experience. There is
> no replacement for that process just like one cannot make a
> tree grow in one day.

Fortunate Souls pg. 477:

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 9, Ch. 10]

TEXT 53

PURPORT

A similar situation could be introduced immediately, even in this age of Kali.

Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 9, Ch. 10 TEXT 51]

PURPORT

> Small is beautiful. In like needle, out like a plow.
> "Utility is the principle "

THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 193:

Srila Prabhupada: Because we have very little money, we can hold sankirtana only on a small scale. We invite everyone, and gradually people are coming to our centers and becoming devotees. If the government would give us a large facility, however, we could expand unlimitedly.

> All good things in life take a while.

Fortunate Souls pg. 477:

> "Purity is the essence." Hare Krishna !

Preaching is the essence. Purity is the force. Books are the basis, and utility is the principle.

---------------------------------------------

Dear Prabhus

Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Have I committed any offenses,
taken any quotes out of context,
made any mistakes, and/or
done anything I shouldn't have?
If so, I'm sorry.

Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,

Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa

Hare Krsna

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