> Prabhupada has said that a Vaisnava is already
> automatically a brahmana, and that the highest stage of
> brahminical perfection is reached when one becomes a
> Vaisnava. Clearly, Prabhupada was only interested in
> training Vaisnavas. we have to realise that VAD is NOT
> for the devotee community.
> The initiated devotees in ISKCON are Vaisnavas and, as
> such, they are already transcendental to all varnas. It is
> nonsense to talk of implementing VAD within the
> community of devotees.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 302:
Srila Prabhupada: Vaisnava is transcendental, but for proper management of the material world, one should be acting like a brahmana, one should be acting like a ksatriya. That is required. If need be he has to act as ksatriya or a sudra. It doesn't matter. But manage, for management the division must be there. Otherwise it will be mismanagement.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 300:
Srila Prabhupada: For the management of affairs we require to divide. Those who are fit for management and protection they should be trained as ksatriya . . . so in our society this division should be there.
> But if some means can be found to establish
> Varnasram Dharma amongst the community of
> non-devotees who have come to look to the
> devotee community for spiritual leadership,
> there can be no objection. However, this must
> grow organically from genuine respect in which
> we are held by non-devotees who voluntarily
> place themselves under devotee guidance.
> If, however, Harikesa Maharaj has been correctly
> quoted, he is wrong on this point. The error flows
> from the misunderstanding that VAD is to be
> implemented within ISKCON. In fact, it is a
> means for setting up an ordered and well-run
> society OUTSIDE our ISKCON.
Room Conversation, February 14, 1977, Mayapur:
"Varnashrama System Must Be Introduced"
Satsvarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Brahmana, kshatriyas. There must be regular education.
Hari-sauri: But in our community, if the..., being as we're training up as Vaishnavas...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: ...then how will we be able to make divisions in our society?
Prabhupada: Vaishnava is not so easy. The varnashrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaishnava. It is not so easy to become Vaishnava.
Hari-sauri: No, it's not a cheap thing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava, is not so easy. If Vaishnava, to become Vaishnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaishnava, that is... fall down. . . . .
Satsvarupa: In our ISKCON, one becomes a brahmana after a year. It's not very hard. Everyone becomes a brahmana.
Prabhupada: That is due to chanting. That lift very easily.
Hari-sauri: Where will we introduce the varnashrama system, then?
Prabhupada: In our society, amongst our members.
Hari-sauri: But then if everybody's being raised to the brahminical platform...
Prabhupada: Not everybody. Why you are misunderstanding? Varnashrama, not everybody brahmana.
Hari-sauri: No, but in our society practically everyone is being raised to that platform. So then one might ask what is...
Prabhupada: That is... Everybody is being raised, but they're falling down.
Hari-sauri: So then we should make it more difficult to get...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: ...brahminical initiation. After four or five years.
Prabhupada: Not necessary. You remain as a kshatriya. You'll be ha...
Hari-sauri: No need for even any brahmana initiation, then...
Prabhupada: No, no.
Hari-sauri: ...unless one is...
Prabhupada: No, brahmana must be there. Why do you say, generalize?
Hari-sauri: Unless one is particularly...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: ...inclined.
Prabhupada: Not that a shudra man is by force become a brahmana. You cannot improve. That is not possible. But even if he remains a shudra and does accordingly, he will get the same position as devotee. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya sam... He'll get the perfection. At the present moment the idea is: if one remains a shudra, then he cannot get perfection. No. Even a shudra can get perfection provided he does the work of a shudra perfectly.
Hari-sauri: For Krishna.
Prabhupada: Therefore why a shudra artificially should be a brahmana? Let them, let him remain a shudra, and if he follows strictly the rules and regulation of shudra, he'll also be as good as a brahmana. The same example: Just like head is as important as my leg. It is not that because it is leg, it is less important than my head. And if you ask the head, "Do the work of a leg," it is impossible. And if you ask the leg to work as a brain, that is impossible. Let him remain brain, let him remain leg, and do your duty and you become perfect.
Satsvarupa: Today you've been saying that the Vaishnava is the highest, above the brahmana. But then we've also understood that everyone in ISKCON is a Vaishnava.
Prabhupada: Yes. Vaishnava everyone, even if he's not brahmana. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa. But you have to gradually bring him to that pure consciousness that "I am servant of Krishna." Here the bodily conception is going on, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that."
Satsvarupa: If in our society we say, "Srila Prabhupada wants some to be shudra..."
Prabhupada: No, no, no. I don't want. I want everyone to become Vaishnava. But because he's a shudra, it is not possible to bring him immediately to the platform of brahmana, or Vaishnava. Therefore falling down. Therefore system must be. But even if he remains a shudra, he's a Vaishnava.
Hari-sauri: So we'd have to completely revise the whole system that we have now.
Prabhupada: No. Whatever we have, that is all right. But we see by experience that they're falling down. There must be systematic. Why falling down? Because he was not fit for the position, therefore he has fallen. Better remain in his position and become perfect. Why artificially bring them? There is no need. Krishna says. Bring that Bhagavad-gita. Sve sve karmany abhiratah?
Hari-sauri:
sve sve karmany abhiratah
samsiddhim labhate narah
sva-karma-niratah siddhim
yatha vindati tac chrnu
"By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect. Now please hear from Me how this can be done."Prabhupada: Yes. He is shudra, clerk. He can... As a shudra, he can get the perfection. Why he should artificially become a brahmana and sannyasi and fall down? This has to be checked. . . . .
Hari-sauri: So in Mayapura here now we have that situation, that so many...
Prabhupada: Everywhere, wherever, Mayapura or anywhere. Question is that here it is clearly said, sve sve karmany abhiratah. Brahmana has his duty, kshatriya has his duty, vaishya has his duty, shudra has his duty. And if he performs his duty nicely, then he also becomes perfect. So why artificially he should be called a brahmana? Let them do, according to sastra, the work of shudra, or vaishya. He'll get the perfect. Perfection is not checked. But why artificially he should be made a brahmana or he should be made a sannyasi and fall down and become a ludicrous? That is the point. Better let him live in his position and become perfect. That's good. That looks very nice. And that is possible. That is possible. Varnashramacaravata purusena parah puman vishnur aradhyate. Vishnu, Lord Vishnu, can be worshipped if you perfectly follow the rules and regulation of four varnas and four ashramas. Here it is also said, sve sve karmani. You work as a perfect brahmana or a perfect kshatriya, perfect shudra; you get perfection. The perfection is available in your natural life. Why should artificially you become unnatural and fall down and become ludicrous? Perfection is not checked. . . . .
Hari-sauri: ...You were saying that it should be started in our society.
Prabhupada: Yes...
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 16 pg. 265 & 266, October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Harikesa: How in the beginning... Let's say you have a king...
Prabhupada: Beginning Krsna.
Harikesa: No, no. Let's say you have a king, and he is deciding this person is worthy of...
Prabhupada: No, no, beginning, Krsna. Why don't you read Bhagavad-gita? You don't know?
Harikesa: No, no. Yes.
Prabhupada: What is the social arrangement? What is that?
Harikesa: That Krsna created the four orders.
Prabhupada: Yes. So you make that four orders, and then society will be in order. But you are not taking Krsna's advice. You are manufacturing your hellish ideas. . . . . Now if they take to Krsna consciousness, select amongst them. Just like I am training you. You are brahmana by training. So one who is prepared to be trained as brahmana classify him in the brahmana. One is trained up as ksatriya, classify him. In this way catur-varnyam maya srs...
> "I do not believe that HDG Srila Prabhupada wants us to
> introduce varnas into ISKCON (it would be strange), but
> only to recommend it to the outside society and help them
> to develop basic character qualities which are helful for
> spiritual life and an ethically guided, harmonious society,
> by introducing VAD colleges for character training."
Siksamrta Vol. 3 pg. 2542:
75-01 "If one is capable, then he should preach. On the whole our society should be divided into four divisions, but such divisions are not material. Just like Krsna belonged to the vaisya community but He is worshiped by the brahmanas."
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 301:
Srila Prabhupada: So everywhere in each center this system should be introduced, and there must be practical application of varnasrama. At the same time this program of devotional service.
Conversations With Srila Prabhupada Vol. 7 pg. 303:
Atreya Rsi: So in our movement the leaders must decide how every devotee and every resource is engaged properly.
Prabhupada: That is leadership. That is leadership, which man is fitted for which work.
THE SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION pg. 324:
In any society you can see that unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will not work properly. It will be Maya, and there will be disturbances.
> I do not see how by just introducing additional
> labels "all problems" will be solved. It is another
> type of new age magic belief or offering quick
> fixes for human problems." I agree absolutely
> with this statement also.
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 9, Ch. 10 TEXT 51]
PURPORT
Among the four yugas - Satya, Treta, Dvapara, and Kali, the Kali-yuga is the worst, but if the process of varnasrama-dharma is introduced, even in this age of Kali, the situation of Satya-yuga can be invoked. The Hare Krsna movement is meant for this purpose.
Srimad-Bhagavatam [Canto 9, Ch. 10 TEXT 53]
When Lord Ramacandra the Supreme Personality of Godhead was the king of this world, all bodily and mental suffering, disease, old age, bereavement, lamentation, distress, fear and fatigue were completely absent. There was even no death for those who did not want it.
PURPORT
A similar situation could be introduced immediately, even in this age of Kali.
---------------------------------------------
Dear Prabhus
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Have I committed any offenses,
taken any quotes out of context,
made any mistakes, and/or
done anything I shouldn't have?
If so, I'm sorry.
Aspiring to be the sincere
servant of the servant,
Yours Truly,
Gauranga Prema Dasa
Hare Krsna