I hope so...but...can I say I exist. I think that is the most basic thing to say...how do I know I exist. do you exist? Where are we really? I could say I am typing this...but am I?! This gives me a headache.......or does it?

Civilizations rise and fall. There was once a civilization in Ancient Crete with flush toilets, concrete and other technologies never seen again for thousands of years. As the Myceneans settled in Crete, they were strongly opposed to the social restrictions of Cretan society. The movement got so strong it superseded Minoan resistance and that was the end of their society. Much was the same in Rome where the Germanic tribes settled within Rome, rejected the government and class system, and finally overthrew the most famous empire in history. People today in our extremely advanced civilization laugh at movements such as the freemen society in Montana, but these are small groups of rebellious people who have rejected the way that industrial-technological society strips away our individuality and personal freedom. As billions of people are forced to conform and function in a society they detest, sooner or later the pendulum is going to swing back in their favour as oppos! ed to its extreme limits reached by industrial society. Surely, there will be enough people devoted to the cause of the destruction of the industrial-technological system that it will be utterly crushed and defeated. Let's hope it happens sooner rather than later where less damage will be done to our planet and where we can peacefully enjoy our "midevial" freedom.

A nifty response to this week's topic: Will there be a fall to this civilization? Barring any cataclysmic event, there will be a transition from this civilization to another. The "fall" of various civilizations throughout history has always been a virtual disappearance of technology and/or people. There are no direct descendants of the Roman Empire alive today. Those who claim to be do indeed have cultural ties, granted, but they are not in direct lineage. The reason is a little thing called lead-poisoning. This was the basic cause for the "Fall of Rome". Rome was a water empire and the engineers of the time used lead for the piping of drinking water from well and springs to communities and households-- it was so pliable. Add a few centuries of this and you get sterility, madness, downfall. The Mayans, Aztecs, and Incas are still among us--but what happened? Around 600 AD, an unknown event destroyed the Mayan civilization at Teotihuacan, along with the empire it supported. In the sixteenth century, even as their beautiful, new empire blossomed, Spanish conquistadors, led by Hernan Cortes, took over the Aztec city-state of Tenochtitlan and destroyed it, which resulted in their downfall. At approximately the same time, and with the assistance of a European plague called smallpox, Francisco Pizarro was successful in taking down the Incas. I think we're well beyond these suicidal and genocidal issues, regardless of what the papers have to say about today's global society. We're on the right road. This internet that we're using will bring cultures closer together, this I firmly believe. This grand, inter-connecting network that evolved from the ARPANET template of the late 60's/early 70's now connects over 50,000 INDEPENDENT networks, allowing interaction on a GLOBAL scale. Will there be a fall? No, my friends, but to quote David Bowman (Keir Dullea from 2001: A Space Odyssey) "Something's going to happen . . . Something wonderful . . ." Watch for it! This is a new beginning for all mankind! --Dan

--PS-- Excited?

One interesting point...At the moment, one of my professors is writing a paper on the great civilizations of history anmd their greater falls. He believes that once a level of 'civil' entropy is reached, the civilization will fall. This seems to be an interesting paper, and I am anticipating it's publishing.

I think the fall of this civilization will come in a different form than what everyone expects. I don't believe that some rouge country will use a nuclear bomb, and I don't believe that a omnipitent god will sweep the evildoer away. I believe mankind will get past thier petty differences and be one. So this civilization will fall only to bring in a better one.

The fall of this civilization is immiment... Whether or not it will be any time soon is unanswerable (although the bible and many ageold soothsayers say otherwise). The old cliche saying, "It is human nature to destroy themselfs." Is just too true. No doubt our ultimate demise will be, sadly, from our own hands.

No. This civalization in which we live is different from all others in the past. Other societies crumbled because of invasions or stagnation. WE need not worry about these. Invasion can happen but since everyone is trying to be the best they would always try to preserve the civalization. In times past there were reasons to destroy entire civalizations. Now to do so ensures that the invaders lose the technology and the spoils of war. Stagnation is not possible in an age of reason. The few great societies that have fallen to this problem lacked one or more vital social structures. We do not. Only the destuction of most of mankind could take out this civalization and even then it would be hard pressed to do so.

What civilization ??? Civilize - to reclaim from a savage state. Wars and rumours of wars, refuges, famine, disease and plagues, mass suicides, school shootings, murders, rapes, home invasions, rioting, environmental decay etc. etc. We still act like savages. Modern laws, modern medicine and modern technology have helped to ease some of these burdens, however they have also helped to create them. We humans are unique creatures. On one hand we create beautiful works of art, poetry, music and have an enormous capacity for compassion and love. While at the same time being envious, conceited, proud, jealous, fearful and ultimately destructive. If the wars within continue to be won by the destructive side then those who allow this are ultimately doomed. The real statement & question is: We are doomed !!! How do we escape the doom ??? So who knows what the answer is to this question ?

Well, the answer is around us. We just need to observe our daily lives.

When there's a beginning, there's always an end. When there's an end, there will be a new beginning. Like the change from day to night and from night to day.

The whole cosmic is always in a cycle of change from creation to extinction, and from extinction to creation.

So if this civilization were to fall, I won't live in fear. And if a new civilization were to rise, I won't be surprised.

Interesting that I just thought of this. I was thinking about all the great empires of the past. Eventually, they fell!! Does this mean anything to us or are we beyond that point? I would like to think so but as they say, anything is possible if you put your mind to it.