Conversation with druidstaff
(03:41:14) skadi_hear_my_plea: math_am_y_bard_blaen asked me to send this you. Sorry, but I always do as I'm asked
(03:41:15) skadi_hear_my_plea: Drongo: I NEVER LIE
Drongo: UI have my honour
Drongo: do not defame me druid without proof. I always back up my accusations. I respect you
Drongo: plesae do like wise
(03:41:31) druidstaff: Proof
(03:41:42) druidstaff: he came in here thursady night and defamed ele
(03:41:57) druidstaff: along witrh Giselle night shade , angel and Ivan
(03:42:05) druidstaff: so he is on my list and I am pissed
(03:42:22) druidstaff: you go after one member og my family you better be ready to face all of us
(03:42:45) skadi_hear_my_plea: i don't know aboutthat. I did see a website, but since i never came in these rooms till the other week, I never got to know ele, so I don't know if any of it;s true. Looked fairly convinving to me but I don't know, and it's none of my buisness
(03:42:53) druidstaff: he wants to get ugly I am Calling The Hunt on all their asses
(03:43:10) druidstaff: as I did it to wenchy's hubby after he hit her
(03:43:25) druidstaff: and his life became very unpleasant
(03:44:23) druidstaff: he has been put on moderated staus in our community since he took all his welsh lessons that he posted from the BBC website total plagerism
(03:45:08) druidstaff: so a lie is a lie
(03:45:19) druidstaff: and I am one of the Fennid of the Community
(03:45:27) druidstaff: so I am getting him coming and going
(03:46:33) druidstaff: he wants to lie about someone here and plagerize oithers work too boot ,
(03:46:44) druidstaff: sorry doesn't wash
(03:47:20) druidstaff: I have the whole copied chat of that night
(03:47:56) druidstaff: he and his friends attacked ele and now they are targets
(03:48:18) druidstaff: I guess they don't like it, they can dish it out but not take it
(03:48:19) skadi_hear_my_plea: i copied that to Math. he said "Drongo: I am a man of honour. So are you. Myself and angel said what we did because we believe it to be the absoloute truth, and we provided proof, and we do not like liers. Anymore that you do. With regards the welsh lessons, I rewrote them, and added my own pronunciation guides. I beleive I also credited the BBC who as an education provider allow you to do that."
(03:49:13) druidstaff: ele's military ID from the first desert storm that was 13 years ago says that she is a woman
(03:49:31) druidstaff: so that proof he alleges to is crap
(03:49:53) druidstaff: also there is no credit given in the site to the BBC
(03:51:18) druidstaff: and as far as the dite goes I am doing what Honour demands
(03:52:07) druidstaff: and as far as what I will do for ele , I do becasue I am her Fennid, as is Niall, so Math you have bitten off much more than you can even dream of
(03:52:31) druidstaff: and this discussion is over!
(03:52:48) skadi_hear_my_plea: Drongo: that's funny. The RAF Take all your ID cards from you when you leave. She couldn't posibly have the id cards from desert storm. it would be an offence, and in any case you have yo sign them back in. All you get when you leave the military is your little red book (service book) ask to see that. It's distasteful I know, but we didn't feel we could let her contuinue to lie to everyone. Did you see the photos? THe photos are fairly condemning.
Drongo: and there should have been. I can't get into the library to upload the 3rd and 4th, but I did put credits to the BBC on the first rwo,. They might have gotten lost in formatting for html. I shall speak to kelticky about it pronto
(03:52:51) skadi_hear_my_plea: fair enough
(03:52:58) skadi_hear_my_plea: i'm impartial as to all this
(03:53:21) druidstaff: I can make condemning photos with Photo suite
(03:53:51) druidstaff: in about 25 mins
(03:56:49) skadi_hear_my_plea: Drongo: the photos we have are photos. scanned in. Not printouts. No one I know can do photo prints like that. Or all the rest of the stuff, like Eireanns birht certificate. Its distastfuel, we had her living in our house for 6 months, and we didn't want to believe it either. I could not honourably let her lie to my freinds, even if telling them meant they would go against us like this. It's a huge mess. Me and angel were crying when we found one of the photos.
(03:58:51) druidstaff: well you believe what you want, but what you did was a declaration of war wehter you knew it or not
(03:58:53) skadi_hear_my_plea: Drongo: i know you probably won't want to talk to me after this. Or angel. Angel is really upset. She just wanted to make sure Amy and Nate weren't lied to as well. And now she;s lost all her firends. But we had to try
Skadi: True. But maybe it was a little bad timing there.
(03:59:20) skadi_hear_my_plea: sorry, I'm talking with drongo as well
(04:00:57) druidstaff: let me put it this way If I could see all of you inperson I would drop a plate in fron of each of you and grind the shards into dust
(04:01:15) druidstaff: which is the greatest insult I can concieve of
(04:01:41) skadi_hear_my_plea: Drongo: if you want to see any of the stuff, so you can prove me wrong, please, im me. I'd love for this to be untrue. Really I would. Then we could apologize to ele and get it overwith. But ele wont' talk to us at all. As soon as Linda came into chat last night ele has all on iggy
Drongo: wont go into pm or a private room. That's why it was all over p2. No other way for people to hear
(04:01:43) druidstaff: and skadi I know you are merely the go between but stop now
(04:01:48) skadi_hear_my_plea: ok
(04:02:10) druidstaff: as of this moment he has ceased to exist
(04:02:54) skadi_hear_my_plea: that's your concern druid. You seem an honourable man. I'll contuinue to talk with him, as I see fit, but as you wish
(04:03:02) skadi_hear_my_plea: I'm Angharad, by the ay
(04:03:08) skadi_hear_my_plea: sort of a friend of dom
(04:04:28) druidstaff: np Angharad, what I just did denies him hospitality the greatest insult a Celt can offer in other words he and the others no longer exist as human being to me
(04:04:47) druidstaff: and if you want to talk with him that is your personal choice
(04:05:42) druidstaff: which I cannot hold against you
(04:05:42) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah I know. I am a celt. Not just american. I'm actually from wales. Here we'd be more likely to ignore them, turn our backs when ever we see them, and refse to feed or water them, or drink in the same room
(04:05:49) skadi_hear_my_plea: a messy buisness from all I can see
(04:06:02) druidstaff: that is exactly what it means
(04:06:16) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah
(04:06:18) druidstaff: the refusal of hospitality or companionship
(04:07:06) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah. I listened to what they had to say, and I made up my own judgement. It's just a shame it all had to come out in public. I told him that if they really had to do all that, they could have been more discrete
(04:07:40) druidstaff: absolutely they wanted to publically humilitate her and all they strted was a war they can't win
(04:08:49) druidstaff: so if I see any of them they go on iggy period
(04:10:45) skadi_hear_my_plea: he was telling me that ele and krys (which ones krys?) wouldn't respond in private so they had to go in p2. I think they're silly for that. It's not good grace to air stuff like that for all the world to see, but hey.
(04:11:01) skadi_hear_my_plea: I know that giselle is upset cuse she was in chat the other day
(04:11:52) druidstaff: if someone was sending you defaming statements would you reply
(04:12:04) druidstaff: about someone you cared about
(04:13:40) druidstaff: or about yourself
(04:13:54) skadi_hear_my_plea: i'd prove them wrong. Show it to be false with evidence that's incontrovertible. WHat i'd do if I was this ele girl is show my birth crtifacte, since tha's impossible to fake pretty much. That's one of the things that weighed my judgement. But that's my own personal opinion. WHat other people think is their concern. Personally, I'd have let it pass, but I don't have all that honour thing to that degree. I do the job that's in front of me, not make life horible for myself by doing the honourable thing
(04:14:05) skadi_hear_my_plea: that's not a good thing is it? :)
(04:14:34) druidstaff: well for me it would be impossible
(04:14:56) druidstaff: that is why I am a Fennid at DruidsPath and IRL
(04:15:30) druidstaff: for me Death before Dishounour is not just a statement, its a way of being
(04:15:43) skadi_hear_my_plea: i meant if I was math or giselle I'd have let it pass and not alienated myself. but he was going on about "honour demands that Truth shall out" and stuff
(04:16:08) skadi_hear_my_plea: I can't see how he's dishonoured himself if they're telling the truth
(04:16:38) skadi_hear_my_plea: but like I said, I don't really know this ele, only what i've heard and a few small chats, so I'm not all that concerned.
(04:17:43) druidstaff: I know ele, and she stayed with Krys and Urky for 4 months in the US
(04:18:00) druidstaff: and she is part of my extended family
(04:18:14) druidstaff: and Krys has seen her birth certificate
(04:18:57) skadi_hear_my_plea: i thought it was 2 months. Thas what math said earlier. May be mistaken though. Me and numbers aren;t good
(04:19:06) druidstaff: lol
(04:19:43) druidstaff: and being of mainly Scottish Heritage, they attacked a member of my Clan
(04:19:51) druidstaff: that is all that matters to me now
(04:20:35) skadi_hear_my_plea: from my understanding of understanding of druid lore (i'm not a druid, but I've got friends in Aberystwyth who are), for you to make a Judgment, you have to see this birth certificate or whatever
(04:20:58) druidstaff: Krys is Ban Draoi
(04:21:03) skadi_hear_my_plea: i thoght this ele was irish and giselle is scottish. Is it the other way arround? I'm confused
(04:21:10) skadi_hear_my_plea: what;s what then?
(04:21:15) druidstaff: Druidess
(04:21:26) skadi_hear_my_plea: thats Derwydd
(04:21:28) druidstaff: and she cannot lie to me
(04:21:46) druidstaff: nor would she, she see's me as her Elder
(04:22:42) skadi_hear_my_plea: i was always told that in judgements it's always the druid doing the judging that has the repsonsibility to know. They're very up on judgements the derwydd here. absoloutley everything they do if someone asks them for a judgement they do things by the lore
(04:23:19) druidstaff: she is as much a Druid as I am
(04:24:01) druidstaff: male or female makes no difference
(04:24:15) druidstaff: and I am not acting as a Druid now I am acting as Fennid
(04:24:27) druidstaff: that frees my hands
(04:25:54) druidstaff: that is the difference between the Welsh and teh rest of the Celts that follow the Path
(04:27:26) skadi_hear_my_plea: what's a Fennid?
(04:27:37) skadi_hear_my_plea: not faimilar with irish terms for these things.
(04:27:47) druidstaff: Guardian, Warrior, Body Guard
(04:27:53) druidstaff: it has many meanings
(04:28:02) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah, the welsh druids are a little more hardcore I think. They seem to think that they're always a druid on any matter.
(04:28:10) skadi_hear_my_plea: Makes them a litle rigid to deal with
(04:28:40) druidstaff: and that is not suppoerted historically
(04:28:56) druidstaff: the young Druids were also warriors
(04:29:23) skadi_hear_my_plea: if they were dealing with it, they'd go the whole hog and be getting details and photos and all tje stuff that on that website in person and stuff.
(04:29:49) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah, I rather fancy the idea of a druid warrior, all in traditonal welsh clothing with a longbow and stuff
(04:29:57) skadi_hear_my_plea: rather appealing.
(04:29:58) skadi_hear_my_plea: sorry
(04:30:00) skadi_hear_my_plea: :)
(04:30:01) druidstaff: LOl
(04:30:39) druidstaff: well I hate to say it but the Welsh were not the last stronghold of the druids it was the Highlands and Ireland
(04:31:00) druidstaff: and they still say Arthur was Welsh LOL
(04:31:03) skadi_hear_my_plea: there's still druids on Ynys Mon. They havent#t gone anywhere
(04:31:10) druidstaff: when he was a Scotti war chief
(04:31:11) skadi_hear_my_plea: nah. Arthur was a corn
(04:31:26) skadi_hear_my_plea: it's even carved on the rock down at tin tagel
(04:31:44) druidstaff: they returned there in the late 18th early 19th century
(04:31:51) skadi_hear_my_plea: and the mabinogion is te basis of all the legends and it's in old welsh/corn
(04:32:21) skadi_hear_my_plea: you mean Iolo Morgannwg? he was a pratt
(04:32:24) druidstaff: but why are there no moinuments or land marks named for him in southern england or wales?
(04:32:33) druidstaff: there is Arthurs Seat in Scotland
(04:32:59) skadi_hear_my_plea: all them silly old men running around in bedsheet :))
(04:33:29) skadi_hear_my_plea: there are. Theirs arthurs falls (in englsh that is) near me here in north wales, and I know there a place called arthurs causeway down in the south
(04:33:40) druidstaff: and the fact that it was all based on a French Faerie Tale
(04:33:42) skadi_hear_my_plea: and another arthurs seat somewhere in Ceredigion
(04:34:02) druidstaff: the legend of Arthur is French
(04:34:10) druidstaff: La Morte du Arthur
(04:34:10) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah. the french got a copy of the mabinogion, ripped it to shreds, made the names all wrong, and called it french
(04:34:15) skadi_hear_my_plea: silly sods
(04:34:59) skadi_hear_my_plea: like "Guinevere". Doesn[t even sound french. Not like Gwyn feyr
(04:35:38) skadi_hear_my_plea: which is white something. My old welsh isn't all that gret. My modern welsh is ok, but old welsh is hard. Dominic speaks it a little i think
(04:35:40) druidstaff: actually Guinevere is very French for that time period that it was written in
(04:36:06) druidstaff: and this all happend becasue of bleeding Geoffrey of Monmouth
(04:37:12) skadi_hear_my_plea: i know he ruipped most of it from teh red book of hergest. but that's a later copy of an earlier legend. If i had to guess I'd say that arthur is an older celtic legend that has roots in the gaels and the britons. But the welsh wrote it down first, and then the rench knicked it and made it stupid
(04:38:09) druidstaff: well they have said that recent scrolls discovered are in Old Irish and describe Arthur as a war Chief in the lands between the two walls
(04:38:58) skadi_hear_my_plea: and I know that some of the places mentioned in teh mabinogion were in southern scotland, and some were in cornwall, and some in england, and some in wales
(04:39:03) skadi_hear_my_plea: so that would follow
(04:39:38) druidstaff: and they say teh place called Arthurs Table is the basis for the round table business
(04:39:49) skadi_hear_my_plea: probably
(04:40:13) druidstaff: and Camelyn the old Roman Fort outside Edinburough is teh Camelot
(04:40:26) druidstaff: brb
(04:41:37) skadi_hear_my_plea: like I said, I'd guess arthur was a briton celt fighting against the saxons adn it got written down in old welsh, the geff the pratt wrote it down and made it french. But there is a Caer Molyn near gloucester that the mabinogion says was one of his main courts
(04:41:45) skadi_hear_my_plea: we'll probably nver know
(04:51:11) skadi_hear_my_plea: you back yet?
(04:52:03) druidstaff: back
(04:52:12) skadi_hear_my_plea: cool
(04:53:45) druidstaff: and the problem is also so many things ahve been destroyed to protect the illusion that it makes it even more difficult
(04:53:54) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah
(04:54:10) skadi_hear_my_plea: i did the mabinogion in school as part of history.
(04:54:44) druidstaff: well I have read that so many times
(04:54:58) skadi_hear_my_plea: some of it is so obviously inserted after the christians came its pathetic. Like they'll be talking about the gold price of someone, then all of a sudden break off into a prayer to mary
(04:55:06) skadi_hear_my_plea: transparent as glass
(04:55:07) druidstaff: but as with all Celtic histories they deal only with the immediate area not with the whole
(04:55:16) druidstaff: of the Celtic Metaphysic
(04:56:28) skadi_hear_my_plea: o, gret! Wyt'tyn siarad cymraeg. Dw'in casau siarad saes pam wyt'tun siarad cymaraeg!
(04:56:42) druidstaff: sorry I don't speak welsh
(04:56:52) skadi_hear_my_plea: but you've read the mbinogion???
(04:57:17) druidstaff: the translation of course lol
(04:57:24) skadi_hear_my_plea: is there a translation then? I didn't think anyone had ever translated it. when you said you'd read it, I thought you meant in welsh
(04:57:37) skadi_hear_my_plea: oh, cool. You learn something every day, don't you
(04:57:58) druidstaff: oh it's been translated and retranslated when they realized they did it wrong lol
(04:58:15) skadi_hear_my_plea: might have to get that. The one we read from is a little inaccessible because it's in a slightly older dialect of welsh to modern welsh
(04:58:33) druidstaff: it's avalable in most book stores
(04:59:02) skadi_hear_my_plea: never thought they'd translate it. The teacher said old welsh and middle welsh don't translate well into modern welsh, let alone into foreign languages
(04:59:06) skadi_hear_my_plea: never looked for it
(04:59:17) skadi_hear_my_plea: i suppose when you think about it, it would be, wouldn't it
(04:59:24) druidstaff: that was the problem they had
(04:59:39) skadi_hear_my_plea: you could always learn welsh to read it! :D
(04:59:51) druidstaff: the same problem Ele fights, she is fluent in old Irish and argues with translators all the time
(05:00:28) skadi_hear_my_plea: if you start now, you might get to understanding it in about 10 years!
(05:00:39) druidstaff: she is trying to get a readership at Harvard in Celtic Studies dept
(05:00:47) skadi_hear_my_plea: I had enough of a problem with it, and I'm a native speaker since I was knee high toa grasshopper
(05:01:01) druidstaff: hey I am having a hrd enough time trying to learn both Irish and Scots gael
(05:01:23) druidstaff: did you hear about the genetic study they did in the UK
(05:01:34) druidstaff: that we are not Anglo Saxons at all
(05:01:47) druidstaff: we are Keltoi- Saxons
(05:01:49) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah. Aparently there are more celt genes in the welsh than the scots :))
(05:02:16) druidstaff: and that teh Scots and Irish share the same Celtic genentic Markers but not the Welsh
(05:02:33) skadi_hear_my_plea: can believe that though. We didnt get the vikings, the angles didn't bother us, and neither did the saxons much
(05:02:43) skadi_hear_my_plea: only the normans came to wales, and they weren;t fussed
(05:02:47) druidstaff: they figure that teh Welsh are really the descendants of the true Britons
(05:03:51) druidstaff: which would really throw a wrench into the attitude of some of them that you have to be Welsh to be Druid
(05:03:58) druidstaff: LOL
(05:05:42) skadi_hear_my_plea: well yeah. THe welsh are the true brtions, ergo the druids were welsh. Ynys Mon is where Caesar attacked. You don't have to be welsh to be a druid though, but the welsh druids were the main ones
(05:10:09) skadi_hear_my_plea: hee hee. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that
(05:12:00) skadi_hear_my_plea: like I said though, i'm not a druid, more of an eclectic pagan. I've got a lot of friends in Aberystwyth who are druids in the uni society.....I may join them next year whehn I go to uni
(05:12:06) skadi_hear_my_plea: if I get in that is
(05:13:58) druidstaff: LOL and we will have to disagree but the historical records say that the Celts migrated from Galatia
(05:14:31) druidstaff: and the Britons were already there and since the Druids came with the Celts isn't it a little tought to say that
(05:14:43) skadi_hear_my_plea: lol
(05:15:39) druidstaff: that is why I have so much fun with the hard core Welsh Druids I use history against them
(05:17:19) druidstaff: and that they cannot deny becasue it can be proven'
(05:17:39) druidstaff: the Celtic Hegomany stretched from Galatia to Ireland
(05:17:56) druidstaff: the Gauls of Roman history were Celts
(05:18:22) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah, the gauls were gaulish celts the so called "3rd tribe"
(05:19:11) druidstaff: but they were Celts
(05:19:32) druidstaff: so the Britons were absorbed as were many other cultures along the route
(05:19:56) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah. Just like I'm a celt.
(05:19:58) druidstaff: so for the Welsh to say they are the only true Druids is mildly insulting in a way
(05:20:07) skadi_hear_my_plea: no. I said they were the main druids
(05:20:14) druidstaff: not true again
(05:20:33) druidstaff: the main Drudic "College was on Iona
(05:20:42) druidstaff: the one the Romans destroyed
(05:20:48) skadi_hear_my_plea: as in there were more of them, adn that Ynys Mon was teh druids powerbase in teh british isles. Hence why caesar sent mark antonius to ynys mon
(05:21:03) druidstaff: then it moved to Ireland
(05:21:07) skadi_hear_my_plea: ack, we can argue to the cows come home, but it won't chamge anything
(05:21:43) druidstaff: I know but I love becasue I have spen more than 20 years on the path mainly delving into pan european history
(05:21:49) skadi_hear_my_plea: we have differnt opinions, based largely I suspect on patriotism in my case, and pride of ancsestors in yours
(05:22:05) druidstaff: I see all Celts as equal brithers and sisters
(05:22:12) skadi_hear_my_plea: thank you
(05:22:13) druidstaff: we all have the same claim
(05:22:17) skadi_hear_my_plea: i never had a borther
(05:22:49) druidstaff: but I refuse to kow tow to the hard core welsh that base their attitude on Iolo who was a fraud
(05:23:37) skadi_hear_my_plea: Iolo was a fraud. Even I know that. he ones I know in Aber don't like the Gorsedd and stuff because of Iolo. They go for the original documents
(05:23:50) skadi_hear_my_plea: I keep on gtting invited to join them. I think I will next year
(05:24:02) druidstaff: but their oldest document is 1105 ce
(05:24:23) druidstaff: where as the book of the Dun Cow is 7th century ce
(05:24:35) skadi_hear_my_plea: i know that the book of hergest and the others are later copies of older books, cause it says so
(05:24:48) druidstaff: the Book of caermarthon is the one I was thinking of
(05:25:07) druidstaff: the book of Hengest is Saxon
(05:25:16) skadi_hear_my_plea: I thought the oldest extant irish document was dated 1000 circa, but refers to some time in the 7th century, like the welsh ones
(05:25:34) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah, it's sort of a scraobook..the welsh bits in it are older though
(05:26:02) druidstaff: No the Book of The Dun Cow was 7th Century and copied in the 11th century
(05:26:27) druidstaff: and it might be even older but we can definately say 7th century
(05:27:46) druidstaff: and the snakes Patric drove out of Ireland were the Druids
(05:27:48) skadi_hear_my_plea: that's hat I meant. The actual document is dated from the 11th century, but the text is older. Same in teh welsh. Some of the mabinogi refer to astronomical events that can only have occurred in the 6th and 7th and 8yth centuryes
(05:27:58) druidstaff: they have proved there have never been snakes in Ireland
(05:28:07) skadi_hear_my_plea: yeah. So much lost, never to be gotten again
(05:28:26) druidstaff: we can reclaim it, we just have to remember the right questions to ask
(05:29:17) skadi_hear_my_plea: that's what the guys in aber say
(05:29:48) druidstaff: because the questions are inside us waiting for us to remember to ask them
(05:30:04) druidstaff: well as I said I have been on the path over 20 years