Sports Gaming Digest (08-30-99)
Greetings Sports Gamers!
I finally brought the website up to date with the missing digests for the
archive, and another revision of the Sports Games Inventory. Work will always
be ongoing with that inventory project but it gets better every time I work on
it. Thanks again to all of you who have taken the time to search your closets
and your memories to add information to the list. While I'm on the subject, the
next major area of development in the Sports Games Inventory that I have barely
scratched is computer games. I'm the first to admit that I don't know much so
I'll make an open invitation to anyone to contrbution the basic information. I
would be looking for the following:
Company Name (address, if the company is still around)
Name of the game (and sport, if it isn't obvious)
Season(s) produced
Computer requirements (just the basics: CD-ROM only, IBM vs Mac, etc.)
I have some info on the website already (mainly APBA and SOM) and various bits
and collected from previous postings. I can collect what I have as a starting
point and solicit your help. This will be another of the many ongoing projects
that keep the SGD rolling.
Thanks to all who have expressed interest in playtesting the Paydirt charts.
The response has been much more than I expected, and probably more than I can
accommodate. I expect to contact perspective playtesters within a week with
more details.
Regards,
Jim Gordon
jgordon@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2125
Pawtucket or Bust!
***************
From: doug sutherland
Jim,
Thanks for all of your time in getting SGD out every week. I now look
forward to Mondays, the only problem is that being on the East Coast, I
don't get it until Monday Afternoons, oh well...
I hope the our fellow gamers can help me with this request. I am
trying to get a copy of "The World's Greatest Hockey Game".
In reviewing back issues of SGD, I noticed that the owner of the game
Joe Woodlock had replyed to SGD and gave an email address. I have
emailed him a few times and have not gotten a response back. Does
anyone out there (or you Jim) know Mr. Woodlock, how I can get a hold
of him or a copy of the game.
[The email I have for John Woodlock is woodlock@prodigy.net and as far as I know
it still works.--JCG]
I had the game as a kid and loved it! I would like to talk with anyone
out there who has played it or knows any of the history behind it.
Please email me at the address below.
Thanks
***************
From: Cline
>Michael Owens
>147 Enfield Crescent
>Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
>R2H 1A8
>
>When a sports game is created to replicate a season using player cards
>or ratings, it seems to me that the game player is blessed with way too
>much hindsight, compared to a real manager or coach. By this I mean
>that a real manager relies on "potential" performances predicated by
>past performances or scouting reports or even gut instinct. Obviously,
>a real manager has game film, reports, etc. to influence has decisions,
>but at the same time, if Player A has a lifetime .300 average over 5
>years, the manager will feel he has the potential to keep hitting .300
>even if he is slumping and batting .215. If for some reason his season
>performance was horrible and he hit .215, the replayer would know this
>beforehand and would know this hitter had the potential to hit
>.200-.230, because his card or rating would make this so. The manager
>would have believed pretty well all season long that the hitter would
>eventually break out of his slump, and start hitting better. I guess my
>question is does a career .300 hitter deserve a bad rating or card or
>whatever (if he had a slump in one season) or does he deserve a better
>card, the same way a career .240 hitter having a great season would
>deserve a worse card.
This is an interesting dilemma. In boardgaming (i.e., with cards), one
way to simulate a player's offensive "ups-and-downs" without being able
to forecast them precisely is to (1) calculate some measure of dispersion
(e.g., a standard deviation) for each of the player's offensive categories;
(2) prepare THREE separate cards for the player: a card based on his
overall career averages (an "average card"), a card based on one standard
deviation below his career averages (a "slump card"), and a card based on
one-standard deviation above his career averages (a "hot card"); (3) prior
to each series (or game), roll the dice and determine which card to use.
Assuming normally distributed data, statistical theory suggests that about
34.13% of outcomes will fall within -1 to 0 standard deviations of the
player's overall averages and 34.13% of all outcomes will fall within 0 to
+1 standard deviations of the player's overall averages. Thus, by
substituting the player's overall "average card" for the tails of the
distribution, and using the "slump" and "hot" cards, a gamer could roll
two ten-sided dice prior to each series (or game): 00-33 = "slump card";
34-67 = "hot card"; and 68-99 = "average card". Or, if a gamer wanted more
or less variation, he could adjust the numbers accordingly, so long as the
"hot" and "slump" probabilities remained equal. Theoretically, then, you
will produce the same results as you would using just one (overall average)
card, because the "slump" and "hot" cards are symmetrical. However, your
outcomes over time will be less predictable (i.e, they will vary depending
on the player's standard deviations, and, of course, the nature of his
"slumps" and "hot-streaks" (i.e., your pre-game dice rolls). The logical
extension of this model is to roll the dice and use just one card for the
entire season. However, one would have to play repeated seasons in order
to preserve the statistical averages.
Let's take an abbreviated example: Clemente batted .317 over his 18 year
and averaged 9 triples per 135 game seasons. The standard deviation of his
batting average and triples were .031 and 2, respectively. Thus, in
replaying Clemente's career, one might expect 68.3% of the replays to
produce final outcomes of between .286 and .349 for batting average and
between 7 and 11 triples. This is intuitively appealing because Clemente's
batting average varied considerably more than his triple production. It
follows that if we want to recreate this variation in a single season,
Clemente's "slump card" would be centered at about .301 and 8 triples,
his "hot card" would be centered at about .332 and 10 triples, and his
"average" card would be centered at his career averages of .317 and 9
triples. There are a number of variations to this model: one might use
quartiles instead of standard deviations to build the slump/hot cards and
use just the two extreme cards (slump/hot), doing away with the average card
altogether. Further, one could argue that all offensive categories do not
vary together (e.g., a player may slump in average, but continue to hit
the same number of homeruns per at bat). Countless other variations are
likely beyond the patience of the SGD. What I've tried to address,
generally, is a way to preserve the player's overall averages, in a boardgame
environment, and yet add individual heterogeneity, which was at the heart of
Michael Owens' dilemma.
Tom
Dr. Thomas W. Cline
86 South Florida Street
Buckhannon, WV 26201
***************
From: Kevin Kuntz
I have been sitting on the side reading this for a couple of months now
and I am now ready to jump in. Jim, I must congratulate you on pulling
together a group of people who really make me excited about sports
games again.
1) I reply to Michael Owen's question about how in a simulation a .300
hitter hitting .200 can be expected to return to his .300 level. This
is something I have always struggled with when playing seasons. It
would be very easy to keep the same starting 9 in for a whole season
and NEVER pitch hit, because there is no statistical reason to change.
The proof is there, no matter how many 0-29 slumps Tony Gwynn goes
through I should always play him because he is likely to get a hit 35%
of the time he steps to the plate. Just like taking out a player in a
basketball game for no reason other than stamina or fouls. It makes no
sense. Even if Tim Duncan goes 0-10 in the 1st quarter, I should never
play Will Perdue because Timmy D is going to come right back. I guess
the only answer I have for this is that I try to manage like a real
coach would and shrug it off. It can bother me, but I just like
playing and trying to be as realistic as possible even if it takes my
stepping in.
2> I have to say that lately I have found myself not playing as much
sports "re-creations" (ie. 1998 Yankees season) as much as taking last
years stats and this years rosters and playing. I know this is
statistically flawed, but it is more fun to add Juan Guzman and Greg
Vaughn to the Reds, update a couple players cards who are having career
years or are rookies and take a shot at playing the Wild Card race.
That way I am right in line with Baseball Tonight!
3> BTW, I play Statis-Pro Baseball and I have since I fell in love
with the 1983 Orioles team at the age of 7. I am a die hard Yankee
fan, but for some reason loved Cal and Eddie in '83. So how excited
was I when on a rainy day in a town I had just moved to in upstate New
York when kids showed up and asked if I wanted to manage a "Statis"
team and gave me the keys to the Orioles... I have never looked back.
4> Lately I have played on an idea Baseball Weekly did some years
back. I made an international all star tournament. I took the
powerful USA team against Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Japan,
Canada, Venezuela, Cuba, and Mexico. I had to fool with some of the
rosters and make up some players, but I tried to stay as realistic as
possible. It was easy for Venezuela, USA, DR, and PR to make teams.
It was the best tournament I have had in years and I would be more than
willing to share the surprising results with anyone interested.
Well, that is all for this week. Keep it up and I look forward to
contributing again.
***************
From: BBWSMIN@aol.com
Subject: 1992 PTP Games/Cards & 1994 Dynasty Cards
Jim,
Please advise the membership that I also have the following available:
1992 Season PTP complete games - $30 postpaid
1992 Season PTP card sets - $20 postpaid
1994 Dynasty Card Sets - $20 postpaid
Thanks.
Kevin Hennessy
***************
From: MJMorgan
Jim,
I've begun to post my homemade Statis Pro cards on my web page. The first
posting is a set of six teams from baseball's early years. You'll need
Acrobat reader to view and print the cards. Let me know of any problems you
have with the site or cards. I'm rather new at this web page stuff.
Mike
Michael Morgan
Aiken, SC
mjmorgan@groupz.net
http://members.xoom.com/MJMorgan/statispro.htm
***************
From: KEITH A CAMPBELL
Jim,
I received the Statis Pro Basketball charts but have no Idea how to play.
Do you have the rules, or know who does? Looks like and interesting game.
[You need to get ahold of the revised edition of SP Basketball. The first year
of the revision was for the 1992/93 season, and Avalon Hill also did 1993/94 and
1994/95 before they gave up on the game. You need the whole game: rules, Fast
Action Cards, and game board. I don't have an extra copy but maybe someone on
the list does, or you could start looking at eBay.--JCG]
Thanks,
Keith
***************
From: "Shawn Frye"
I would like to get some information from any fellow gamers that have been
playing Paydirt football from AH/SI. I have been playing SOM Football since the
release of the 1981 card set (18 years now)! I love the game, but there is some
'shortcummings' to it I guess. I would like to know your thoughts about AH/SI
Paydirt. Thanks in advance! I will try and 'win' an auction on Ebay for the
game. Here are my questions about Paydirt:
1. What is the 'latest' release of the rules (for example in SPFB 5th ed. is
the latest)?
2. What was the last year of the card set(s) made by AH/SI?
3. Is the game currently still being made and/or yearly card sets produced?
[The last season Avalon Hill produced was 1993. I think the last rules
revisions were dated 1992 but the Paydirt rules were not numbered like Statis
Pro with the 1st through 5th editions. The game evolved quite a bit from 1969
to 1993 and various details changed although the basics of the system remained
intact. Howerver, playing the early seasons against the later seasons loses
much in the translation.--JCG]
sfrye@home.com
sfrye@intekinfo.com
***************
From: RICHARD ANDREWS
Subject: Statis-Pro Basketball
Jim:
Maybe I was an exception to the rule...but I had no problem
downloading the SP basketball card image attachment, the card quality is
beautiful. Last week I purchased a copy of the 94-95 edition of Stais
Pro basketball from Fine Games. I have not played SP Basketball since
the mid 70's, the re-designed version is vastly improved over what I
played 20 years earlier. I also play Strat Basketball and Fastbreak I
would rate this game better than Strat, but in my opinion it still falls
short of the greatness of Fastbreak The only negative is the 200 FAC's.
Rick A
***************
From: "Bill Brenn"
Subject: [SGD] Statis Pro Baseball
Hello All -- I have the Avalon Hill Statis Pro Baseball Great Teams set and
I think I'm missing a few cards from the 86 Mets.
Here's the Mets players that I have --
Pitchers -- Aguilera, Anderson, Berenyi, Darling,
Fernandez, Gooden, McDowell, Ojeda, Orosco, Sisk
Hitters -- Backman, Carter, Dykstra, Foster, Hearn,
Hernandez, Knight, Mazzilli, Mitchell, Santana,
Strawberry, Wilson
All the rest of the teams in the set have 25 players, that's why I think I'm
missing 3. If someone has the set and the missing players would you email me
so I can get a copy of the information for the cards. Thanks.
[My Great teams game is packed away so I can't answer you but it appears you are
missing three players. Perhaps someone can help.--JCG]
Bill
***************
From: "Kevin Taylor"
Subject: PC T&F Replay Game
Jim.
I am thinking about producing a PC Track & Field Replay
game and would like your opinions and comments on the games that are already on
the market for T&F. i.e. Decathlon by Avalon Hill (I know this not around
anymore), RWoIA by Lambourne Games, Lance Haffners and also Pat Premo's although
I know he has decided not to release it as yet.
What are the for's and against for each one and what would you
like to see included in a computerised version?
[I like decathlon and Lambourne. I've never tried Haffner but I hear only good
things about his games. I think there have been a couple of PC track & field
games but I don't know anything about them. Deciding what to include in a PC
game is a really open question. A PC gives you much more flexibility for adding
detail and variation without slowing the game to a crawl. I would be more
interested in the method of play and the results rather than the graphics but
I'm not much of a PC game player anyway, so I'm probably not the one to ask.
Perhaps others have opinions to share.--JCG]
Speak to you soon
Kevin
"Instant Replay" a new Sports Replay Gaming Magazine coming soon.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~kkcomp/replay.htm
***************
From: Christian Smith
Subject: statis pro baseabll
hello, i was reffered to you by one of my friends, and he said that you
would be the man to answer my question, do you know the formulas for statis
pro baseball? and if you by chance do not know do you know anyone who would
know? and also i would like to recieve your newsletter sports games digest,
please email back with you response
Signing off
Christian Smith
***************
From: MgrMatt@aol.com
Could you please add me to your mailing list. thank you Matt Chowning
***************
From:
Hi Jim,
Great newsletter! Please put me on your mailing list.
I would be very interested in the Statis Pro basketball MS Word files that
you have.
Talk to you later!
Thanks
Jack
jdembo2569@aol.com
***************
From: "Horn, John"
I wonder if anyone has the Strat Fan 1963 Chicago Bears cards. I recently
bought a stack of Strat Fan cards and I am missing a few cards from this
set. If anyone can help me out with copies or a scan, please contact me at
jhorn@hydro.mb.ca and I'll let you know what I need. Thanks.
John Horn
***************
From: Jeffrey Yohn
Jim:
Please include me on the mailing list.
I've enjoyed reading through the archives and look forward to continued
coverage of sports games.
I started tabletop gaming back in the late 60s with Negamco baseball,
football and basketball. Over the years I've played Statis-Pro baseball,
Pursue the Pennant and Title Bout. With the prevalence of computers (and
the lack of time to roll the dice or flip the cards) I've enjoyed SOM
baseball, basketball, Lance Haffner College basketball and boxing,
Microleague baseball.
I now play Diamond Mind for baseball (replaying the 1930 and 1948 seasons),
Jump Shot baskeball and Action PC Football.
Reading this Digest provided the pleasant surprise that Negamco products
are still available. I'm thinking of ordering a baseball game for old time
sake.
Thanks.
Jeffrey Yohn
University Development
Duke University
919-684-2123
udvjdy@duke.edu
***************
From: "K., P. Premo"
This is a little off topic, but I was wondering if anyone reading this
digest remembers those two softball teams called:
The King and His Court - men
The Queen and Her Court - women
I am trying to find the name of the King and the Queen, along with the
names of the team members for each -- and any other information that is
available out there on them.
Can anyone help?
Thanks.
Pat Premo
***************
From: Brian Caravantes
I would be very interested in being added to your list.
***************
From: BBWSMIN@aol.com
Subject: Statis-Pro Revision history/Tabletop Baseball game "engines"
Jim,
Is it possible for you to give me (and possibly others) a short revision
history of Statis Pro Baseball from it's Jim Barnes days in Waterloo, IA (or
before) to the present? It would be much appreciated.
[I defer to others who must have more inepth knowledge/memory that I on the
subject of SP Baseball. Hopefully, someone will speak up. Thanks.--JCG]
I am wondering, in the on-going table-top baseball design discussion if
people know of other "engines" for baseball games that differ from the 50-50
split (Strat-O-Matic is the classic example here and the additive/subtractive
method (APBA and BLM are classic examples here). Any input people would like
to share would be appreciated. I am familiar with ASG/Be A Manager/SI
Baseball where the play initiates with a pitcher's card roll, and also
Replay's different type of additive/subtractive system. But what I am
wondering is whether or not any other method of initiating play is really
even possible.
Thanks for your info on SP Baseball in advance.
Kevin Hennessy
***************
From: Kjstzoo@pitnet.net
pls. put me on your e-mail list for sports gaming digest.i'm interested in any
computer. sims--I have hafner/apba sims.i'mlooking for some sort of pro golf
text game?do you know of any?let me know and thanks--KEVIN S
***************
From: "K"
Subject: Re: decathlon
Hi Jim,
Just wanted to fill you in on the progress on my SI DECATHLON cards
I am making. This week I made (Daley Thompson, Guido Kratschmer, Bob
Coffman, Tomas Dvorak). Dvorak the new WR holder tested well in a meet
I had this week scoring 8623. Kratschnmer and Coffman tested well also,
but Daley was a little low. In the next two weeks I will attempt to produce
the following "new" guys:(Hingsen,Hammalainen, Huffins, Fritz, Plaziat, O'Brien,
Nool). I am also looking to start a "Decathlon League" I am hoping for 5 teams
with 4 athletes each. It will be head to head with each team playing home and
away.We can have the draft via ICQ or net meeting. As we make more cards we can
bring them on next season. I will run the league and no dues will be necessary.
I am sending the file of Dvorak so people can use, and I'll have the others
soon. Anyone interested in the league please contact adimiz@worldnet.att.net
Ken
***************
From: BBWSMIN@aol.com
Subject: Just one more post . .
Just wanted to make my regular plea: if anyone owns PSG Baseball, I would
like to either pay you handsomely for photocopies or talk with you about how
the game works, and what you think of it.
In fact, if anyone out there amongst the 400+ has ever played or seen this
game, please contact me.
Thank you in advance, whoever you might be.
Kevin Hennessy
***************
From: MSBLCOM@aol.com
Sir,
Love your internet magazine. Could you please put me back on it....my
e-mail address is now MSBLCOM@AOL.COM. thanks and great job.
Looking for the baseball fans out there that want to start a baseball league
that has it all free agency , trades, rookie draft ...etc.... please e-mail
me at MSBLCOM@AOL.COM to join a great baseball league that will start in the
spring of 2000. Diamond Mind Baseball is the game of choice.
J.T.
***************
From: Frando
I have played tabe-top and now computer sports games for 30 years and
would like to subscribe to you publication,
Frank Roach
***************
From: jay harris
For Sale
Lance Haffner 3 in 1 Football, The game comes with 1997 pro $ college
teams also Great College past teams,great past pros, WFL,USFL,WLAF. all this is
on one CD-ROM, in addition Pro football decade disk for 60', and 70's. $25
+ 3.20 priority mail
1983 Strat-0-Matic Teams Compete season extra", included card are in
excellent condition. $25 +4.00 postage
Thank you for looking
Jay Harris
jharris@io.com
***************
From: RNash98909@aol.com
Subject: lambourne games track games
I am looking for lambourne games Internatonal track and field game and their
800 meters and 3 and 3/4 lap games with supplements and noticed that they had
your review of the former posted on the Sports Game shop web site. Would you
have any of these games for sale or know of someone who does? Do you know of
a U. S. or Canadian distributor for these games? Have you had any experiences
(good or bad) with the sports game shop in UK, which seems at the moment to
have the only full stock of the Lambourne products that I can find on the
web. Thanks for your help. BOB
[I don't have anything for sale and I don't know where you can get in the U.S.
I ordered Lambourne T&F from the Sports Game Shop and I received the game fairly
quickly considering it was coming from England.--JCG]
*******************
From: "Kevin Meskew"
Jim-
I'm working on a T&F Game creation, hope to have it completed by October. It'll
consist of 30-40 of the all-time top T&F perfomers in each event plus relays,
may need some playtesters.
Do any Speed Circuit enthusiasts out there happen to know how many tracks there
are total for the game? I have the original 3 that come with game, and
purchased accsesory pack IV on ebay, what's on I, II, and III? Is there V and
VI?
If there are more, I'm willing to pay $ for full size copies made, or reasonably
scaled copies. Thanks...
till next week,
Kevin Meskew
PS- meeting at my place this Wed; any other San Fernando Valley/L.A. area sports
gamers interested, you know the drill.
***************
From: "James Marshall"
Hi All
Just letting you know that I have added some more stuff to my web page
"A Page For All Seasons" Thanks to the work of Chris Joyce the 1908
Major League Season is available on my page. Also Grant Lederhouse
has updated his CFL Game, and included the 1998 season (1981 season
was already included). He squashed a few bugs, and enhanced the game.
So if you already downloaded the game you will want go back and get the
1998 version. You can get there by using this link
A Page For All Seasons
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/8019/
James Marshall
****************
END DIGEST (08-30-99)
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