Sports Gaming Digest (09-13-99)
Greetings Sports Gamers!
In case you missed my intro last week, or you're procrastinating I thought I
would repeat the information that Greg Jayne, a sports writer and columnist for
the Salem Oregon Statesman Journal, concerning an article that he is writing for
his newspaper on the state of tabletop baseball gaming. I encourage any of you
will thoughts to share to contact Greg, and tell him I sent you.
Greg Jayne
Statesman Journal
Salem, Ore.
503-639-6099
GRJAYNE@AOL.com
Also, Greg is looking for Oregonians in his area who play table-top or
computer baseball games.
For those of you who expressed interest in the Paydirt playtest, our progress
was unavoidably delayed by jury duty and various fiascos at work. Damned
inconvenient to have a real job and be a sportsgamer too. I'll be in touch.
Regards,
Jim Gordon
jgordon@library.berkeley.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2125
Pawtucket or Bust!
****************
From: "sirrock"
im interested in cfl
[You ought to contact Chris Creelman directly regarding the CFL stats. Same for
anyone else who is interested.--JCG]
-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Creelman
>Subject: CFL Stats, Rosters & Updates
>
>I have been receiving your sportsgaming digest for about one year. Over the
>past few months I have seen some messages from individuals requesting
>individual and team stats for past CFL seasons. I am trying to gauge how
>many people would be interested in receiving this info. What would be
>offered would be updated and corrected data for many of the CFL seasons,
>especially for the awful record keeping for 1994 & 1995 and the incomplete
>records of 1987 & 1988. Rosters and depth charts could also be provided for
>the 1950-1980 seasons. A pricing stucture is in the process of being worked
>out. Please send me email if interested.
>
>Thanks
>Chris Creelman
>Information Works - www.informationworks.net
>WebMetrics - Simple surveys.Powerful information
>chris@informationworks.net
>503 402-1244 1-800-724-3060
****************
From: "Bill Brenn"
Subject: SGD All-Star Replay & other AH topics
Jim - Thanks for the continued effort.
I'm sure that between the group, we probably have every issue of Avalon
Hill's All-Star Replay magazine. Would it be possible to catalog the
articles by subject and make an index available so that others could get the
information on games from others on the list. I have several issues and I'm
always looking for more information or utilities for the games.
[This sounds doable. Would you, or anyone else like to coordinate the effort?
I would be glad to put the index onthe website when it's complete. My issues
are in a one of the many boxes that I never unpacked after moving.--JCG]
Speaking of the AH games. In the last version of Statis-Pro Basketball
(94-95) they had converted the game system from base-8 to base-10 and other
changes. Has anyone made conversion charts from one to the other.
That game also included 27 NBA champions, but most of those were not rated
for the 3-point shot. Has anyone developed a system to add the 3-pointer to
the older teams. My guess would be to make the 3-pt shot about 2/3 of the
shooting number for guards, 1/2 for shooting forwards, 1/4 for power
forwards and even less for centers. Any ideas.
Has anyone made any other teams for this game. Maybe some of the good ABA
teams - the 1971-72 Colonels that were 68-16, but lost in the playoffs. I'd
like to have seen them play the 72 Lakers - Wilt vs Gilmore. Also some of
the good Utah Stars, Pacers, Nets teams too. Has anyone made a template for
the cards?
Last week someone put their version of Coach Dice for Bowl Bound in the SGD.
If anyone else has one, I would be interested in seeing it.
****************
From: RalphieCS@aol.com
Anybody out there have any of the following "stuff" that they might be
willing to part with.
1981 and 1988 Strat-O-Matic football cards -- big Bengals fan here (I know
there are so few of us)
Lance Haffner's soccer game
A copy of Bowl Bound or Lance Haffner's 3-in-1 football.
Sadly, I sold my copy of Bowl Bound and all three sets of team charts at a
garage sale a few years back for 10 bucks. What a shame. Thanks.
****************
From: "Keith Peercy"
Subject: Varsity Sports Industries
Would like to know if Varsity Sports industries still exists and how can I
contact them.
[The address I have is: Varsity Sports Industries, PMB #113, 6666 Odana Rd.,
Madison, WI 53719, Toll-Free: (888) 326-7217, Email: VSIGames@aol.com --JCG]
****************
From: "K., P. Premo"
Jim,
Thought I would share my latest update information with your readers.
The 1999 WNBA season is now available as an update for the Women's Pro
Basketball Supplement to my (Men's) Pro Basketball game. Included with
the 1999 WNBA is the last ABL season -- both for the price of one ---
$1.50 ppd. Remember, you need the Women's supplement and the Men's Pro
Basketball Game to play. For more info, see my web site:
http://members.spree.com/sports/patrick94
Pat Premo
****************
From: "Michael Cieslinski"
Subject: correction for 8/16/99 issue
Jim,
I found this excerpt and it should read that the league is using DYNASTY League
Baseball, not Diamond Mind.
"Also the Fat Elvis Baseball Collective has its opening day this Monday visitthe
web page at www.top-notch.net/rickster/pages/febcf.html the league isusing
Diamond Mind and looks to expand next year."
****************
From: Ron Bates
>
> From: Glenn Garvin
>
> Hi Jim --
>
> Just thought I'd drop a note, knowing you must be already lapsing into
> depression, with just 11 short weeks until Cal absorbs another brutal
> whipping from Stanford in the Big Game.
>
> [Yeah, well we'll always be ahead of you in the number of green-haired
> multiple-pierced raving lunatics on campus. BTW, hope you enjoyed the Texas
> slaughter of the Cardinal, while Cal dominated that powerhouse from the
> East, Rutgers. Me thinks it'll be a long season on both sides of the Bay,
> as we go to Nebraska next week to learn how the big boys play.--JCG]
>
Couldn't let a Pac-10 reference just go by! Had to respond!
Am an Oregon Duck fan, myself. Haven't had Cal on our schedule
for 2 years, and now Stanford is off of it!
Ducks had a disappointing season start at Michigan State. Losing in
the 4th quarter, 27-20. Still, with a new quarterback, returning
injured tailback, returning injured middle-linebacker, the prognosis
for the season got a little bit of an uplift. New qb, A.J. Feeley
threw for over 300 yards. Offensive line was the problem. With
already 5 OL injured, line presents a problem. This had a lot to do
with Rueben Droughns only getting 59 yards! He was hit in the back
field every time he carried the ball! He had a few good runs, but
when you lose 2-5 yards as often as that line did for him, your totals
don't get that great.
The Pac-10 looks like it is down this year, but it'll still be a great
race for the Rose Bowl. A friend of mine says that Cal will be in the
Rose Bowl. And then points out that "you heard it here first!" I'm
not ready to agree with him, but Cal will have a formidible defense.
Only scoring 21 points against that East powerhouse, Rutgers, doesn't
spell much for the offense, though. Saw the Stanford-Texas game.
What can I say? Stanford looked like Oregon State has for the last
several years! Texas was just too much for them. Much like Nebraska
will be for Cal next weekend.
[I call it a moral victory that Cal prevented Nebraska from scoring for almost
an entire quarter. And we held them to 45 points.--JCG]
I know that you guys have your 'Big Game' rivalry every year, but our
little 'Civil War', Oregon-Oregon State, has gotten a little heated up
recently. Oregon State hired Dennis Erickson of Seattle Seahawk/Miami
Hurricane/Washington State fame. From hearing the Beaver fans talk,
Dennis walks on water! They did win this weekend, but 21-13 over
Nevada won't make Florida State quake in it's boots! However, they did
get the 'Erickson Era' started with a win. Several Pac-10 teams didn't
do that. See Penn State-Arizona! Stanford-Texas! Oregon-Michigan State!
Just love Pac-10 football, though! Ducks open at home this weekend against
UTEP and are heavily favored. Hope that happens! I'll be there! Love
college football. Love the Rose Bowl, also. Grew up in Big-10 country,
Iowa, and now live in Pac-10 country, Oregon!
Ron Bates
Formerly Iowa Hawkeye fan!!! (Still follow them, but maybe not this year!)
Presently Oregon Duck fan!!!
****************
From: Jeffrey White
Are there any Rugby board games out there? And what is the object of
Rugby?
[Try the Sports Gaming Shop/Lambourne Games for Rugby. They're website is
listed on the SGD website.--JCG]
Still looking for APBA Bowling sets (cards) I just have the '81 cards.
I'd like to have something a little more updated. I'd also like to know
if there is anyone out there that has any theories on how APBA makes the
cards. Thanks
Regards,
Jeff
****************
From: Mike Robinson
Subject: board games delights!
Hi all gamers, the following is a long list of my games, some I want to learn
and enjoy:
1) 3 sets of Statis Pro Baseball (would love to learn this one,
have the 1978,1980, 1983 seasons) anybody want to show me?
2) all APBA games- baseball and golf, I know how to play
3) all Strat-o-matic games
4) Replay Baseball-- very cool- fun to play, I love this one
5) Dynasty League baseball-- 1998 season- board game- still learning but
looking for tips
6) Avalon Hill's Football Strategy-- have yet to touch, looking for old rosters
of NFL/AFL CLUBS with lineups
7) SI's Auto Racing- not touched yet
8) 2 Paydirt games- childhood Fav!
9) Statis pro basketball-- never touched
10) Statis pro Football- never touched
11) Big League Manager-(book form) would love to learn
12) Football Fever-- book form, never touched yet
13) Don K.'s ncaa Football, never touched, want to learn,
I plan to get another Ncaa Football game Varsity Gridiron very soon, the above
games are NOT FOR SALE OR TRADE, but rather if I can find anyone to play
against, I will.
I live in Salem, Virginia and at this time I'm the loner in this area of sports
gamers. Also, Can anyone tell me what sports game Hasbro is bringing
back or making?
[As far as I know, Hasbro has not announced any plan or intention to bring back
sports games, but we're still working on them.--JCG]
If anyone wants to talk about the above games feel free, I might just make a
little club,
Mike R.
****************
From: WaltAJudi@aol.com
dear jim please add me to your newsletter walt
****************
From: "Jeff Tristram"
Subject: TABLETOP SPORTS GAMING CONNECTION
Dear Jim,
I have recently attempted to find the TABLETOP SPORTSGAME CONNECTION web site.
As I remember it, the website address is www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Dome/9910
However, when this has been entered, I end up visiting another site ( The
NetMeeting Alliance Baseball League). Surely the TSGC has not disappeared? I
found it rather useful, especially the link to EBAY where I manged to purchase a
copy of Basketball Strategy.
[I've had the same experience. Maybe Chris Carl can give us a clue.--JCG]
I would be grateful if anybody connnected to TSGC could remind me of the web
address.
Regards
JEFF TRISTRAM
****************
From: "Paul Sauberer"
From: "JM Weaver-La Mountain"
>Title Bout and Strat College Football ('86, '87, '88) enthusiasts there
>wanna swap stories, playing tips,etc.??/
Title Bout was one of my favorite games and I spent hours playing a
tournament for every division and compiling rankings. One of the trickiest
things to do was how to make the rankings. Eventually, I settled on a
mathematical formula to take into account the relative performances of each
fighter as well as the underlying ability of the fighters involved.
Obviuosly, a knockout against a true champion should count more than one
against a relative punching bag.
What I decided on was this:
Boxer's 2 * PL Pts * BR * Opp BR
Rating = _______________________
Points
(PL Pts. + Opp PL Pts) * (BR + Opp BR)
PL Pts= Punches Landed Points
BR= Boxer Rating
I also added one Ratings Point to the winner of a bout for a KO or TKO.
In ranking boxers' I just took the raw cumulative points and ranked based on
that. That gave a bias to the boxers I liked and fought more, but it also
tended to raise the rankings of boxers who progressed in my single
elimination tournaments because they fought a lot.
There were occasional instances where a loser got more points than a winner,
particularly if the loser was getting pounded and then pulled out a KO win,
but the extra point evened that some. For the most part, the points went
where they were supposed to go and I didn't have to agonize over subjective
rankings or merely have to rely on W/L records.
I am anxiously awaiting the release of the Trunzo's latest computer game,
since my copy of Title Bout was ruined in a basement flood and I don't have
the time to undertake such a large undertaking anymore even if I did have
the game. I hope that they incorporate some sort of ranking system in their
game. I believe that it will.
Paul Sauberer
****************
From: HWoodFrank@aol.com
Dear sir:
I am interested in being on your list for the Sports Gaming Digest, which I
was turned onto by my uncle, John Soroka. He also said that a company is
prototyping Paydirt charts, and I would also like to be on that list if
possible. Thanks so much.
Frank Parisan
****************
From: "scott middleton"
What I enjoy about board games versus computer games is that with a board
game I can see the results and why they happened. I roll the dice and I read
the player card or result chart. With a computer game the results just kind
of happen. I hit the enter key and, BOOM, Home Run!
Sometimes I swear the results on some computer games are predetermined so
that the Atificial Intelligence does not appear to be less than great. Some
football games are so uncanny in the ability of the computer coached team to
comeback from a large point deficit that it appears the game is almost
fixed.
Has anyone else experienced this or am I just suffering from paranoid
delusions?
****************
From: KVAvallone@aol.com
Subject: Football game question
Hi Jim!
Have been very encouraged by the response to my game (Second Season Football)
lately, and am actually looking into making the game available "for real"
after the first of the year...website for info and orders, plus a full-blown
game presentation with dice, playing field and game box...
My question is this: is Strat-o-Matic the ONLY company that still puts out a
pro football card-and-dice board game and yearly NFL team/player ratings? I
went to the SGD website and reviewed the archives, and came to that
amazing--to me--conclusion.
I know the other games like Statis-Pro and APBA are being kept alive by
hobbyists who are composing their own "home brew" card sets...but is anybody
besides Strat-o-Matic actually putting out a CURRENT game, currently?
[I thought APBA/MMI was still around to parallel SOM but I haven't actually
followed that situation. Maybe someone can elighten me. I don't think there
are any others in that same vein. The field of companies has certainly thinned
out over the years.--JCG]
Keith
****************
From: "Weiland R. Hollis"
Hi, Jim.
My Oakland A's are hanging tough in the wild card race. Amazing what you
can do with a few dollars (relatively speaking), good coaching and youthful
enthusiasm (all of which my LA Dodgers seem to lack!) Oh, well.
I've been enjoying the Avilov and Jenner Decathlon charts you emailed.
They seem to be pretty accurate in their results. I got a Dan O'Brien
chart from Kevin Meskew as well to bring the possible AH Decathlon
competitors up to 10.
On a completely different subject - for tennis game fans. I just put a
copy of the Sports Illustrated/Avalon Hill Pro Tennis game up for auction
on Ebay (item=163072490).
It's the 1983 version - in really good shape. Also includes photocopies of
the 1986 version player cards as a little bonus.
Thanks again for all your good work with the SGD.
Wally Hollis
whollis@ite.net
****************
From: kman@mail.direct.ca
Subject: Re: Newly uncovered sports games for sale
Hi again.
I've been very busy, haven't had much free time, but always enjoy the
weekly arrival of the digest.
On a recent business trip/vacation I had opportunity to drop by my family home
and uncovered some sports games from long time storage. I brought them back with
me after many years of sitting unused. Most go back between 15 - 30 years. I've
had the enjoyment of them in the past, but feel others might be more
enthusiastic about them today. So I'll offer them up to whoever would like to
bid on them. Here's the inventory.
1] - 18 original Strat-O-Matic baseball team sets. 13 are from 1973,
including the entire National League & the Oakland A's. One is from
1969 [Expos] and the others are from the early '70s.
2] - 21 issues of the Strat-O-Matic Review, between May 1976 -
January 1984.
3] - Calculator Baseball. This is a unique little product from the
'70s. Kind of bridges the gap between dice/chart and computer games.
It's a booklet with charts and player ratings, requires use of a
calculator to determine play results. It includes the Major League rosters for
1978
4] - Proto Hockey. " A fast action table top game." It's a 1975
product from Carlson Games, comes with ratings instructions. Simple &
fast playing.
5] - Extra Innings 1976 edition. The original book product from
Gamecraft, with the 1976 ratings, great teams of the past, 400 top
players. Plus the 1977 ratings supplement issued the next year.
6] - Ball Park Baseball. This is really a unique product. It's in
near mint condition, comes with all charts & instructions. I have 49
seperate team sets of all-time great & world series teams. Individual
laminated, colorful player cards for each player on each team. I also have
22 seperate ballparks. These added a lot of uniqueness. Each "ballpark" is a
heavy stock four page color folder with specific play-outcome results for
that stadium. Thus, a fly ball or line drive in Crosley Field is
different than in Shibe Park, or the Polo Grounds. Most of the famous
and historic stadiums are included.
7] - Data Boxing. Issued by Gamecraft in 1976. Designed by renowned
table-top gaming expert Julian Compton. Perhaps one of the most
thorough sporting simulations ever made.Over 300 boxers are rated,
with individual cards. Plus additional fighters on the 1977 update
sheets. Amazing attention to detail. For instance, there are 4
Ali/Clay cards, for different stages in his career. One just to
replay the "fight of the century." All charts/instructions/cards
included, but cards have been detached from perforated pages.
8] - Goal Football. Also put out by Gamecraft in the mid '70s. A
total of 56 teams, including the entire 1976 NFL & 28 all time great
teams. All instructions/charts/teams included, though team pages have
been detached.
9] - Baseball Manager. Another game from Gamecraft, in large 94 page book
format. In near mint condition, includes the entire 1979 majors, 1967
American League, 1959 National League & 28 other all time great
teams.
10] - Statis Pro Baseball - Great Pennant Races edition. Includes the
entire 1950 & 1967 American League, 1964 National League. All charts,
fast action cards, player cards, historical booklet included. As
well, hundreds of players I rated myself [using their formula]
divided into all-star teams of the decades.
11] Real/Life Basketball. Again, from Gamecraft. One of the first
games to introduce "normalization" in their rating methodology. Comes
in large book format, with the entire 1977 NBA, 40 1977 college, 12
all time great rosters, plus the 20 greatest all time players.
Ratings instructions are included.
12] - Face Off. A 1974 [?] hockey board game from Waddington. In
original box with all original components. Quite a fun little
product, brings back the ambiance of hockey in the '70s, with the big
hair & mustache look!
Sorry to take up so much space. I hope there are others out there who
will get the same "kick" I did from these unique products. If anyone
is interested in any of these items, email me at:
kman@direct.ca
Thanks,
Arnold Kalnitsky
****************
From: cs-sgl
Subject: statis pro football 'college'
Dear Statis Pro Football Gamers
I am in the process of making 16 1998 college football teams for
statis pro football. I am looking for people to help play a tournament. I
would like to send 2 teams to a person have them play a game and then e-mail me
back the stats and game summary. Would anyone be interested in this kind of
tournament. Let me know if interested. E-mail name and address so that I can
send out teams for the first round. Thanks.
Phil
cs-sgl@concentric.net
****************
From: "Francis 'Paco' Lindsey"
I would like to receive the Sports Gaming Digest.
I have played a number of tabletop sports games during the past thirty years,
but now I play primarily APBA baseball (master game) along with an occasional
Strat-O-Matic basketball game. I use computer variants of board games
(primarily from APBA and SOM, although I have a number of others that take up
space on my hard disk) because it saves me time in computing stats--and because
I haven't found a tabletop hockey game that can match the flow of APBA's
computer hockey.
In my spare time, I dabble in computer programming. My current projects include
horse racing, football strategy (currently with APBA-type players), and baseball
strategy (down to calling individual pitches) as well as a few utilities like a
baseball scoresheet. I have extensive experience in general programming but
almost none with art/photography/graphics, so you can easily guess where all my
projects are at the moment.
***********************
From: "Kevin Taylor"
Subject: Instant Replay Sports Gaming Newsletter
The 1st Issue of "Instant Replay" will be available from the 20th September
1999.
The issue will be at least 50 A4 pages, and includes replay reports and articles
from various contributors and various different sports and games.
Included in the first issue :-
Soccer - The English Premier League 1998-99 - using "Stats Soccer Replay"
Cricket - The first ever tests between England and Australia in 1877 - using
"International Cricket"
Motor Racing - The first two Grand Prixs of 1950 - using "The World of Motor
Racing"
Boxing - Mike Tyson - The pre-jail years - using "Championship Boxing"
Boxing - Some Great Fights using "Title Bout" and "Title Fight"
Baseball - A True World Series - using "Diamond Mind Baseball"
American Football - USFL 89 - using "Second Season"
American Football - Monsters of the Medway 1941 - using "Action PC Football"
Athletics - All Time Great Decathlon Championship - using "Decathlon"
Athletics - 1936 Olympic Games. - using "Replay World of International
Athletics"
General - "Gaming A Way of Life?" - by Terry Goodchild.
General - "Computer Matchups" - by Pat Premo.
The cost per issue is 3 pounds or $6 for overseas readers, if you subscribe for
a year, you get 6 issues for the price of 5, i.e. 15 pounds or $30.
Send Cheques or International Money Orders to :-
Kevin Taylor
c/o K&K Computer Solutions
PO BOX 5606
Harlow
Essex
CM17 9RW
England.
Also check out my web page at
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~kkcomp/replay.htm
Regards
Kevin
************************
From: "steven van schultz"
For Sale:
APBA Master Baseball Game - this game was never played and only bought
about 5 weeks ago!
includes 1998 season and XB's
includes the XC's from the APBA Journal
includes 3 APBA Journal Baseball Reference Packs
Ballpark Effects Chart
Master Symbols
A couple of APBA Jounal issues.
All the cards are in MINT Condition except for the following:
New York Mets - Player cards have stats written on most of the cards
and some of the cards have white out on them.
35.00 + 9.75 shipping (very heavy game) - this is a
great value.
Domestic USA Only.
Steve
stvans2@yahoo.com
*****************
From: "john soroka"
Subject: PAYDIRT OPTIONS
Jim,
Please find attached the sheets of options I offerede about a month
Ago(sorry for the wait)also, I have cleared some time so I'd love to playtest
The new prototypes. Please include me on your list.
If there is any interest in these options (taken from rule supplement
Sheets, variations of original rules and a couple of yours) I would be more than
happy to include the remaining sheets which include the two minute
timing system from the all-star replay and a variable roll chart that
determines among other things the weather and track (yd factors).
Also, if there is any questions on these sheets I would be pleased to
Respond(group or individually). Please feel free to try these, I can tell you
that by adding some risk to the reward they have livened up many a
contest. Perhaps its not too late to have some incorporated on the
prototypes.
Finally, thanks to all who have participated in this digest. And
special thanks to all those who have made a committent to the revival of the
Paydirt charts!
JOHN SOROKA
[The option sheets that John has devised are in an Excel spreadsheet. I'm not
going to attach them to the digest but anyone interested can contact either John
or myself to request the file.--JCG]
**********************
END DIGEST (09-13-99)
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