From: BEATLE To: TURTLE Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 00:52:34 Message Number 9902 Speaking of 2 Live Crew, I think we should all celebrate the fact that they've been found not guilty in their obscenity trial. I would rather retch in a gas chamber than listen to their album, but I follow the idea that "I might not like what you say, but I will defend your right to say it." =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/21/90 00:55:34 Message Number 9903 > I'm willing to fight in the service of this country and some asshole > is out there trashing the symbol of it! That wouldn't bother you? Yeah, well, I go to school and get excellent grades and all the idiots with shitferbrains get everything. Actually, I can see your point, but it takes all sorts to make up a world (now isn't that a cliche if ya ever heard one?). We happen to have those who don't like something about the government. Ifthe whole reason for having the government like it is, why should we keep those from not liking it. Those who are degrading it only want to change it. =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/21/90 01:00:16 Message Number 9904 > Oh, I see. You are an Iraqi sympathiser, is that it? And I bet you > cheered when Kohmomeni took over the embassy... Ummmm, did you read the same message? I looked back at Spellwind's message and got the impression that the Iraqi people aren't "less than human" because of the corrupt ones... =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/21/90 01:03:32 Message Number 9905 > Don't trash my flag... Okay, we'll get someone else's. Like you said, I wouldn't do anything that hurts someone. Burning a flag doesn't hurt anyone, and if anything, it's only going to affect someone else's opinions. Maybe the burner will have second thoughts about it later. But it doesn't hurt anyone. =========== From: BEATLE To: BURNEY Subject: STAR TREK Date & Time: 10/21/90 01:06:27 Message Number 9906 > I cannot see McCoy (in The Next Generation)... Welp, he WAS on the show, andDoctor Pulaski was about as close to a female McCoy as you can get without the Real McCoy. =========== From: BEATLE To: BURNEY Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 01:08:14 Message Number 9907 > It was a matter of choice. Which sounds fine to me. Now, it's forced. Every day we do it. The kids aren't going to learn respect by being forced to say a pledge every morning. The same people who think flag burning is wrong (not all, but some) probably came along and said "They HAVE to say this every day or it's disrespectful to our country!!!" =========== From: BEATLE To: CORWYN Subject: CAFFINE Date & Time: 10/21/90 01:23:45 Message Number 9910 > Still drunk at 7:25am, and proud of it! I generally don't compliment those who get drunk, but if you're drunk and can still be literate and appreciate John Lennon, then that's gotta be something to admire. =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 01:25:58 Message Number 9911 >...ridding the country of their parasitic influence could only benefit > this country. HOW? I'd like to know. =========== From: BEATLE To: ANYONE WHO CARES Subject: weirdness Date & Time: 10/21/90 01:34:52 Message Number 9912 Anyone seen the ad campaign on TV for the video release of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show"? I've heard alot about the film, and I've read (most of) the script, but I guess it is much weirder than I've led myself to believe. Welp, if anyone gets a copy of it, maybe someone would be interested in getting some people together and putting the script online to some use and using the "additions"... I've built up some strange interest in that, and I have no idea why. Guess it's just because it's different. =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: CORWYN Subject: The Shadow Date & Time: 10/21/90 10:40:54 Message Number 9915 Hey, Corwyn! Welcome back! Where the heck are you nowadays? And what ya been doing? Its awfully quiet at N.C. without a resident Amberite... Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: CORWYN Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 10:43:07 Message Number 9916 Aha! I think I finally understand the Specialist's position! You CAN'T burn the United States if you disagree with it -- you can't destroy it. But, you can destroy the thing which has become closest (in the minds of people) to it -- the symbol representing the U.S. In his mind, those that destroy the symbol are those that want to destroy the nation as a whole. Personally, I kind of doubt that logic. The last time I checked, most of those flag burners only wanted to make major changes in the government. Not destroy it entirely. Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 10:47:56 Message Number 9917 Actually, Specialist -- I DO know many people who have left the U.S. (and changed citizenship) because they so strongly disagreed with the policies of the U.S. And not one of them has been less than a literate, interesting person who is quite knowledgable of the world situation -- exactly the kind of person I'd WANT as a citizen of my country. Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 10:53:18 Message Number 9918 DF>But, personally, I felt sorry when he re-started the government. AMEN! Kill the Federal government! Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: MAX Subject: Altr/Rlty Date & Time: 10/21/90 16:53:54 Message Number 9920 Hmmm. Could it be that I *do* have a chip on my shoulder? Could it be that I'm always insulting, even if someone offers some friendly, helpfull advice? Could it be that I actually *do* percieve everything as an attack when people don't agree with me? Could it? ....nahhhhh..... .s =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: BEATLE Subject: Armag. Date & Time: 10/21/90 16:57:31 Message Number 9921 B> I'm one of those geeks that everyone comes to when they don't B> know what they are doing in school. Ah, but in that case, you aren't a geek (per se)...just a brain. Brains have redeeming values. People actually like brains...they come in handy. (I probably shouldn't have said that...someone'll use it as a cheap shot, now. That's predictable.) =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: BEATLE Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 17:01:19 Message Number 9922 No, I never saw it [Fourth...July] but if you believe I should see it so you can make a point, I'll make an effort.... =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: BEATLE Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/21/90 17:03:10 Message Number 9923 B>So, in other words, if you like the country, tell everyone, andif B>you don't, shut up?? No, no...just it goes with that saying, if you don't have something nice to say about someone [thing] then don't say anything. Just a common courtesy. For instance, I'm not particularly fond of bowling, but I don't go around saying things like, "Bowling is a game for morons, and it's a really stupid sport." No, I keep my mouth shut, unless someone asks me and *then* I *might* say something like that (if I was in a particularly nasty mood). More likely, I would simply respond in a mild negative manner. But, I don't go around burning down bowling places! And the thing we are talking about here has a lot more importance (symbolically) than a bowling alley! =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Bashing Homos Date & Time: 10/21/90 17:09:13 Message Number 9924 Bash the Homos is a registered tradmark of Manasota Specialty. All rights reserved, Copyright 1989, Manasota Specialty. And yes, you're darn right I'm proud of that line. Excuse me. It's just that I'm too arrogant for my own good. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: BEATLE Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/21/90 17:17:13 Message Number 9926 B>Those who are degrading it only want to change it. You say you want a revolution, well, you know... we all want to change the world. There's better ways to change things than by burning flags. But when you talk about destruction, don't you know that you can count me out. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: BEATLE Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 17:26:57 Message Number 9927 B>The same people who think flag burning is wrong (not all but some) B>probably came along and said, "They HAVE to say this every day or B>it's disrespectful to our country!!" BWEEP! BWEEP! BWEEP! NS ALERT! NS ALERT! "*Attention, there has been a non sequitur occurence. Attention...*" As a matter of fact, I'm sure that rule was enacted when people actuall still had *respect* for this country. These days, people don't even take thier HAT off for the flag any more...much less salute or cover thier hearts when it goes past. Alll guestures of respect...just as burning it is a BLATANT guesture of disrespect. Grrr...I still think they should be shot on sight....grrrr. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 17:39:30 Message Number 9930 Right!...Oh, wait. No, no, nononono. Hmmm. Hey, I just had a radical thought! Suppose I went out and burned the flag so I could get a law passed against flag buners? No, I'd probably be the first one arrested....shit. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 17:41:16 Message Number 9931 Great. Go buy a large island and call it Latevaria. Then invite all those dicontents. Offer free immigration! I'll help 'em pack. =========== From: RUFUS To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 18:41:26 Message Number 9933 >BWEEP! BWEEP! BWEEP! NS ALERT! NS ALERT! Prepare for emergency saucer seperation and engage self-destruct sequence. Sorry, I just had this amazing urge to type that. =========== From: RUFUS To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/21/90 18:44:07 Message Number 9934 >Hmmm. Where is this [echo]? I'll meet the "Pathetic One" there. You two should really save up your anger for the next Paintball game (which is scheduled for the 11th). I've been saving up all my anger for the past 3-4 months, and when I vent it, I'm guessing there'll be a small explosion, wiping out a few city blocks. |Don't pay any attention to the nice Rufus, he hasn't had his medication |today. =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 19:31:13 Message Number 9936 Well, I don't know what you'd think of the movie, but the character at the beginning reminds me a lot of you. He says "America: Love it or leave it" and he despises people who burn the flag. It's a very good movie. Also, if you wait a while, you can see something similar to it on CBS. They've got the network rights (instead of first-run cable) to show it, and of course it will be edited. Unfortunately, it's not going to come close to the film I saw when edited for TV> =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/21/90 19:34:47 Message Number 9937 > And the thing we are talking about here has a lot more importance than > a bowling alley! Absolutely true, but I don't get /your/ metaphor this time. We don't have people speaking out against bowling because bowling alleys are not like the government. I was thinking baseball would be more like the government. Now don't tell me that people keep their mouths shut there when they don't like something. =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/21/90 19:37:33 Message Number 9938 > But when you talk about destruction, don't you know that you can count > me out. Bad idea to quote that. There's only one version of Revolution that says that. When they performed it on TV, they said "in." and they also said "in" on the second (first actually) on the White Album. By the way, you've been really calm here. I was expecting a big flame when I called back. Congrats. =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 19:40:10 Message Number 9939 > much less salute or cover their hearts.... Well, it might make you feel better to know that if I was wearing a hat, I would take it off when saluting the flag. I must be one of the few at school who don't want to rush through the pledge of allegiance. Even my teacher, who's in the National Guard, runs though it quickly (and sometimes incompletely). =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 19:43:12 Message Number 9940 >...the ones who are right and the ones who are...pathetic. > Also, it would settle their problem...they'd no longer have to > complain about the country they lived it... No, they wouldn't, but /I/ would!! If they're complaining about the country, silencing them would be stupid. You're going to stir up more trouble that way. And to just say "those who are right and those who are pathetic" is REALLY out of line, since there is no "right" or "wrong", it all depends on what you think. You're not totally wrong. Sure, doing something about flag burners would be right to some extent, but it would go against what the country stands for. Someone let me know if I'm wrong, but does it seem the dark and light extremes have been mentioned in these arguments and not the shades of grey?? =========== From: RUFUS To: BEATLE Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/21/90 20:09:49 Message Number 9941 Have you considered starting a 1-900 number for Beatles Trivia? "Call now and find out which Beatle actually liked steamed squash." =========== From: SPELLWIND To: BEATLE Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 21:14:51 Message Number 9943 Why is it when I say something, I'm considered shit, but when someone else says it in different wording, it's three cheers? =========== From: SPELLWIND To: BEATLE Subject: Troi Date & Time: 10/21/90 21:16:41 Message Number 9944 Marina Sirtis (AKA: Troi) would be good though. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: DRAGONFLY Subject: ST:TNG Date & Time: 10/21/90 21:19:21 Message Number 9946 Say what? Ares? HAHAHA! Greek religion allowed for multiple (Hmm how do I phrase this?) God's to exist, basically being the same. But aren't they all. I am in contempt for /Almost/ every male god, Save Janicot and his multiples... =========== From: SPELLWIND To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/21/90 21:23:30 Message Number 9947 D) Billion people feel or have felt it makes sense..... Actually, either they never thought to question it (Lightning bolt theory) or they were /brainwashed/ since early childhood as most of /them/ are and stood ignorantly by their hammered in beliefs... =========== From: SPELLWIND To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Flag burning Date & Time: 10/21/90 21:26:28 Message Number 9948 WOAH! Could it be that Turtle has found a worthy adversary? =========== From: SPELLWIND To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/21/90 21:36:47 Message Number 9950 I think he was tought to think that way in subliminal messages in thaining films.....in the military... =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Altr/Rlty Date & Time: 10/22/90 02:16:15 Message Number 9952 >Could it be that I actually *do* perceive everything as an attack >when people don't agree with me? Don't worry. You're not the only one on this board that has that problem. /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/22/90 02:18:28 Message Number 9953 Aha! I think we have something here! Acording to your own words, we wouldn't waste our breaths about trivial faults, such as bowling. Also, you've admitted that countries are more important than bowling alleys. Isn't it logical to spend more time trying to change important things than it is to change unimportant things? /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: SPELLWIND Subject: ST:TNG Date & Time: 10/22/90 02:29:21 Message Number 9954 My point was, my dear Spellwind, that it seemed you were a bit warlike in your attacks yourself. Especially against Christians. I'd also brush up on my Greek mythology. Calling Pan and Ares "basically the same" gods is unthinkable. /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: SPELLWIND Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/22/90 02:33:03 Message Number 9955 Neither your lightning bolt theory nor your brainwashing theory explains how Christianity first grew into the movement it became. Also, are you really saying that human nature was so different in those times that they didn't question the Church? /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: SPELLWIND Subject: Flag burning Date & Time: 10/22/90 02:40:56 Message Number 9956 As far as I know, I'm not anyone's adversary on this board. I represent no one's views but my own. /Dragonfly/ =========== From: BEATLE To: RUFUS Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/22/90 18:26:54 Message Number 9958 > Have you considered starting a 1-900 number for Beatles Trivia? No, but that may actually be a good idea to help me with my money crunch. Actually, I don't think any of them liked steamed squash, but contrary to popular belief, they don't like jelly babies. =========== From: BEATLE To: SPELLWIND Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/22/90 18:30:16 Message Number 9960 > Why is it when I say something, I'm considered shit, but when someone > else says it in different wording, it's three cheers? I dunno. Can you expand on that? (Like telling me what you said that's been reworded?) =========== From: BEATLE To: SPELLWIND Subject: stuff Date & Time: 10/22/90 18:31:38 Message Number 9961 Forget it dude. Okay.. darn. I KNEW I should have taken better care of it. Are you still interested in some used (ie opened) Star Wars items? If you can think of some items (ie name them) I'll let ya know i I'll sell them. =========== From: BEATLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/22/90 18:34:54 Message Number 9962 >..are you really saying that human nature was so different in those > times that they didn't question the Church? I hope he isn't. We just read today about the orgins of Christianity in the World History book, and it certainly wasn't like that. =========== From: RUFUS To: BEATLE Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/22/90 19:11:08 Message Number 9963 >...but contrary to popular belief, they don't like jelly babies. What? WHAT!? After all these years, I thought they loved jelly babies. Thanks for setting me straight on that one. (said with /slight/ sarcasm) "No, I'm their biggest fan. I have all four Beatles, their personal interview cassettes, the new Beatles street wear dolls, the stage, and the keen Beatle's phone." =========== From: SPELLWIND To: DRAGONFLY Subject: ST:TNG Date & Time: 10/22/90 19:18:57 Message Number 9964 I compare Poseidon, Zeus, and Hades to Ares.... =========== From: SPELLWIND To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/22/90 19:20:28 Message Number 9965 They changed from fear. And as a matter of fact, I should say before I answer that is that human nature shouldn't be an issue. Human nature is the same for everyone, we all hold consistent good and evil... Not equal, mind you, consistent. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: SPELLWIND Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/22/90 19:24:20 Message Number 9966 Get this, fearing one religion, therefore changing to the same relig- ion under a different form... =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: SPELLWIND Subject: Christianity Date & Time: 10/22/90 19:38:06 Message Number 9967 The original convertees changed from fear? Of what or of whom? As far as I recall, the Roman Empire was not very tolerant of the early Christians. If they would have been fearful, who would they have feared more: the powerful Roman Empire, or the fledgling Church? I don't want to debate your second point ("Human nature is the same for everyone") until I know what you mean by human nature. /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: SPELLWIND Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/22/90 19:41:08 Message Number 9968 >Fearing one religion, therefore changing to the same religion under >a different form... What do you mean by that comment? Changing from which religion to which religion, precisely? Are we even still dealing with Christianity? /Dragonfly/ =========== From: SPELLWIND To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/22/90 21:32:35 Message Number 9969 Changing from the male-influenced rule (Jupiter) to God. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: STINKIN MARINES Subject: You HOSERS Date & Time: 10/22/90 21:33:45 Message Number 9970 Here's someone who belongs at the top of the list of: THOSE WHO NEED TO BE SHOT Out of Savage Sword of Conan, Ish 179 Whining wenches, This is in response to the harpy Eileen Tronolone who obviously is spending too much time in that beer tent in the Rhein. Wenches should be "obedient" and I'm glad we have a /real/ man like Conan to put wenches in their proper /submissive/ place. It's sad this world has too many jelly- spined men allowing these she-dogs to run them over. Good thing Crom's blessings are shower- ing over the U.S. Marine Corps (the last breed of real men). You're right, Eileen. Red Sonja is worthy of Conan but /no wanch/ in this era /ever/ will be. Till Conan joins the Air Force (civilians in uniforn), make mine Marvel! Semper fi'! Lcpl E.M. Chasco J.R. U.S. Marine P.O. Box 238 F.P.O. Seattle, WA98764 This shithead should be executed, and I'd pull the switch. Tell me, do ALL Marines think like this scumbag? =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/23/90 15:32:52 Message Number 9973 >I bunch flag-burners in one category... Typical. ( (c) 1990 The Specialist) =========== From: TURTLE To: MMA Subject: Survival in BBS Date & Time: 10/23/90 15:38:33 Message Number 9976 >I've heard about your VW Bug. I'd like a description of it. Okay. It's a '72 Baja bug (engine sticks out the back, with a roll cage around it), grey with black fenders and swords on the sides, with two fog lights on the roof (like Mickey Mouse ears) and two on the bumper and a floodlight on the back. The hood is silver, and it comes complete with digital tach, digital clock, and James Bond control system that operates the various weird accessories and whatnot. Thje engine itself has a stinger exhaust that comes out /sideways/; it's kinda odd-looking. What it doesn't have, sadly, is a battery that works and an operational fourth gear--problems that a hundred bucks or so could fix, bit it's a hundred bucks I don't have. =========== From: TURTLE To: CORWYN Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/23/90 15:46:02 Message Number 9977 Speaking of burning crosses on lawns, did you see where David Duke actually got defeated in Louisiana's Senatorial race--but only just, and only after all the other Republican candidates dropped out and endorsed the Democratic candidates? Scary stuff. Had the other Republican stayed in, he could have split the non-Duke vote enough that that asshole might've gotten in...yuck! And I've actually talked to people who claim racism isn't a real problem in this country any more... =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Toxic Shock Date & Time: 10/23/90 15:48:38 Message Number 9978 >Did I get it right Master Turtle? Yep, you got it. You are learning, grasshopper. =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/23/90 15:49:40 Message Number 9979 We certainly don't need the flag burners, and yes, we could do well without them, but I think Corwyn's point in the analogy was that if you try to get rid of (jail, shoot) them you'll end up doing yourself harm. Freedom doesn't work if you love, cherish, and protect it right out of existance. =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: Armag. Date & Time: 10/23/90 15:53:03 Message Number 9980 >I'm one of those geeks that everyone comes to when they don't know >what they are doing in school. I used to be one of those! I charged people money. Got fifty bucks for writing some guy's program once... =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: Flags & You Date & Time: 10/23/90 15:54:15 Message Number 9981 >I don't think flag burners are showing disrespect... Yes, they are. There /are/ respectful ways to criticise one's country or one's social or political system. Burning the flag is the equivalent of telling someone "You really suck sheep, you slimy disgusting excuse for a wart on a gopher's ass" rather than "You know, I don't believe you are correct by doing X, Y, and Z." =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: George & Congre Date & Time: 10/23/90 15:58:10 Message Number 9982 >But, personally, I felt sorry when he re-started the government. Oh, I dunno. Therere are parts of the government that could stand to be shut down permamently, but I'd like it if we kept the postal service, the Department of Transportation, and the FDA, since I kinda like to mail things, drive, and eat. How 'bout a *selective* shutdown? =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/23/90 16:01:42 Message Number 9983 Christianity is not alone in believing that the diety "saves" his worshippers by either leaving or dying--but Christianity is the only one I can think of where the diety dies by being murdered by the people who are sinning against him in the first place. Notice that I only referred to Christianity as "slightly silly;" the entire New Age movement qualifies as "extremely silly"... I would still maintain that historically Christianity has done more harm than not. Christianity brought us the burning of the library at Alexandria, the Spanish Inquisitions, the Crusades (a total unmitigated disaster for most of Europe), and an entire period in history we now know as the Dark Ages. Christianity stands squarely opposed to reason and science--they excommunicated Galileo seven hundred years ago, and warned Dr. Stephen Hawking to stop research into the Big Bang theory two years ago (on the grounds, get this, that the beginning of the Universe is "not for man to know"). Even Islam, ofr all its bad press in the Western world, is not that reactionary; Muslim societies invented astronomy, higher mathematics, and history, and during the period Christianity was "maintaining order" in Europe most of the Middle East was united under the Persain Empire in a period noted both for its stability AND for its tolerance of other cultures and other faiths (something you'd be hard-pressed to say about Europe during the same period, no matter how much you value "stability"). On the whole, Christianity doesn't strike me in any way as having /anything/ that sets it apart from any of a hundred other religions, other than its size 8which is hardly a compelling argument in favor of it), and actually actively UNimpresses me with its history--you'd think that the living religion of the God of Love wouldn't be noteworthy primarily for the number of people that it's killed and the amount of suffering that it has caused. =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Altr/Rlty Date & Time: 10/23/90 16:14:09 Message Number 9984 I don't think that anyone was genuinely proposing that all people have the right to do anything at any time...although too often that argument gets used to defend a proposition that undesirable activity X should be banned "because you can't let people do /whatever/ they want; after all, do you think people should be allowed to run around killing each other?" and that's a line of argument (to use the term loosely) I find very distressing. =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: 2 Live Crew Date & Time: 10/23/90 16:16:35 Message Number 9985 Yes! I was absolutely overjoyed when I heard about their acquittal! I'm not especially fond of living in a society that features the 2 Live Crew's "music" (to use another term somewhat loosely), but I loathe the idea of living in a society that champions censorship for /any/ reason. You know, it really kind of pisses me off that I have to defend the 2 Live Crew. These jokers make me sick; their efforts at music are rather pathetic, they are patently incapable of being anything other than insufferably self-serving, and in general I'd rather be gored to death by wild oxen than be forced to listen to "Me So Horny" one more time. On the other hand, I'm not going to make everyone else assume my taste in music, and it pisses me off *immensely* that some arrogant, self-righteous hypocrite somewhere has the gall to tell me that I can't listen to whatever I damn well want to. So I end up defending the indefensible against the intolerable... =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: CAFFINE Date & Time: 10/23/90 16:23:14 Message Number 9986 Hey, *I'm* literate and I like to get blasted off my ass every now and then! (And end up with furry art on my back...it's a long story...) =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: weirdness Date & Time: 10/23/90 16:24:31 Message Number 9987 BEATLE!!! DUDE!!! The script for the Rocky Horror Picture Show has been online and available for downloading here on A/R for about the last eight months or so! =========== From: TURTLE To: SPELLWIND Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/23/90 16:33:06 Message Number 9988 >Why is it when I say something, I'm considered shit, but when someone >else says it in different wording, it's three cheers? Because you end up saying it with phrases like "you paramilitary freak," which gets the idea across but also pisses off your opponent. =========== From: TURTLE To: SPELLWIND Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/23/90 16:34:59 Message Number 9989 >...they were /brainwashed/ since early childhood as most of /them/ >are and stood ignorantly by their hammered in beliefs... That7s the sort of thing I'm talking about. You do have a valid point: most people who profess a religion are professing the one they were raised with, and relatively few people of *ANY* religion have either thought objectively about their beliefs or even bothered to become acquainted with other belief systems before deciding that they have The Truth. However, phrasing it the way you did kind of clouds your point with emotionally-charged language, and it's not likely to make your opponent consider your point objectively... (Yeah, I know, I'm a fine one to be lecturing about that since I have the same habit myself...but at least I can recognize it when I'm doing it... :) ) =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/23/90 16:39:35 Message Number 9990 Human nature being what it is, 90% of the human beings on the planet aren't going to question /any/ church. As for the manner in which Christianity started--hey, it wouldn't be the first time a single intelligent, highly charismatic individual built an enormous movement around himself. Only difference between Jesus and any of a number of others was (a) Jesus was also a very wise man and (b) he had good intentions. =========== From: TURTLE To: SPELLWIND Subject: You HOSERS Date & Time: 10/23/90 16:44:16 Message Number 9991 >Tell me, do ALL Marines think like this scumbag? No. Not all Marines are chauvanists, and not all chauvanists are Marines. What's your point? Also, are you really advocating executing people for holding opinions that differ from yours?? =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: Toxic Shock Date & Time: 10/23/90 18:17:57 Message Number 9992 >Yep, you got it. You are learning, grasshopper. But only when I walk on rice paper without leaving a mark...oops...wrong show. Damn. =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: SPELLWIND Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/24/90 00:08:33 Message Number 9993 >Changing from the male-influenced rule (Jupiter) to God. You've left me even more confused. Are you seriously saying that all male-influenced rules (let alone simply all male rules!) are virtually identical? Have all male rulers throughout history been almost identical? Or, better yet, have all rulers that have been influenced by males (whether they be male or not) been virtually identical? The answer seems obvious. Even in religions, male-influenced religions are not the same. Buddhism is not Islam; Taoism is not Stoicism. Calling the worship of Jupiter nearly the same as the worship of Christ is, well, unusual and anachronistic. /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: TURTLE Subject: David Duke Date & Time: 10/24/90 00:19:44 Message Number 9994 Sadly, there still exists a lot of racism in the world. People are still afraid of anyone who is different than they. People prefer their cozy, warm burrows to the challenges of reality; people look at the differences on the outside without caring about the similarities on the inside. But a world with everything the same would bore, and a world with no challenges would stagnate. Our greatest enemy is ourselves, and our fears at the base of our hearts. /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: TURTLE Subject: Georgie Date & Time: 10/24/90 00:26:10 Message Number 9995 >...I'd like it if we kept the postal service, the Department of >Transportation, and the FDA, since I kinda like to mail things, >drive, and eat. Would all cars stop running if the Department of Transportation shut down? Would we lose our stomachs if the FDA closed? Neither of those government agencies produce the cars we drive or the food we eat; they only regulate it. If the Federal government shut down completely and permanently, we'd have some problems (Sinclair's The Jungle comes to mind), but not insurmountable ones. Other non-government watchdog agencies would come into existence to watch over our food and autos. Airlines would begin to pay for the control tower if they had to. Granted. There would be a lot of shifting and changing if the Federal government closed down permanently. And I'm not saying it would be a good thing. (I would miss the Post Office as well! Could it survive without a Federal government constantly pumping money into it?) But -- mankind would survive without the Federal government. (The above arguments do not apply to state governments. We need to keep our police forces.) /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: TURTLE Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/24/90 00:37:42 Message Number 9996 Another point-by-point discussion. T> Christianity is not alone in believing that the deity "saves" the T> worshippers by leaving or dying. Granted. T> ...but Christianity is the only one I can think of where the deity T> dies by being murderer by the people who are sinning against him T> in the first place. Christianity is also the only religion I can think of which adds one more piece of guilt: it claims that any sin committed is also against God. Because of its broad definition of sin, everyone is a sinner. By Christianity's own logic, if Christ were killed, He must have been killed by someone who was sinning against him. T> I would still maintain that Christianity has done more harm than T> not. Christianity has brought us the burning of the library of T> Alexandria... There haven't been revolutionary Muslims? Indeed, I recall that at least one group of Muslims had the belief about books "If it contradicts the Koran, it's heresy and should be burned. If it doesn't contradict the Koran, it's unnecessary and should be burned." If you're interested, I'll find where I got that from. T> the Spanish Inquisitions... That, I agree, was a blotch against Europe for the first part of it. It did a lot of evil in the Americas as well, but it did at least a smidgeon of good. T> the Crusades (a total, unmitigated disaster for most of Europe) Wait! I wouldn't claim that. Certainly, some of the Crusades were hideously cruel, especially the so-called "Children's Crusade." But without the Crusades, Europe would have remained the closed world it was during the Dark Ages, with little interaction with the Arab world or the world of the Orient. It broke Europe of its provincial mentality, and they began to create the mindset which flourished in the Rennaisance. They introduced Europe to new and old ideas, and began to break the overwhelming power of the Church. (Continued next message.) =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: TURTLE Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/24/90 00:55:24 Message Number 9997 T> ...and an entire period we now know as the Dark Ages. Again, I disagree with your historical analysis. It seems to me that Christianity was not the cause of the Dark Ages; it merely filled the vacuum left by the destruction of the Roman Empire. No power existed at the time that was strong enough to fill the shoes of the Empire, so the Church tried to create a spiritual empire. Without the Christian church, it is quite possible that the Dark Ages would have been even darker. T> Christianity stands squarely opposed to reason and science. I disagree strongly with the first statement, but I agree with the second. Christianity has never opposed reason. One of the greater things to emerge from the Dark Ages was the entire system of logic we now use, the so-called "classical logic." However, their premises are not and have not been based on science, so they disagree strongly with science. >Even Islam, for all its bad press in the Western world, is not that >reactionary. Muslim societies invented astonomy, higher mathematics, >and history... Astronomy was invented well before the Roman Empire, in Persia, I believe. Well before the Prophet came out of Medina. History has existed nearly as long as writing has existed: indeed, much of the Old Testament could be considered folk history. Higher mathematics was also created along similar lines in China. >On the whole, Christianity doesn't have anything which would strike me >as particularly noteworthy, except for its size... I won't argue in matters of taste. >...you'd think that the living religion of the God of Love wouldn't >be noteworthy for the number of people it's killed and the amount >of suffering it's caused. Again, I disagree that's what Christianity is noted for. But, in the annals of human record, suffering and death is much more interesting and much more likely to be recorded than life and love. /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: TURTLE Subject: Altr/Rlty Date & Time: 10/24/90 01:11:32 Message Number 9998 Actually, you have my argument there, but backwards. Let me rephrase it better. One of your users (who has since recanted) said something like, "I think people should be allowed to do what they want to do." I then gave extreme examples of what that statement is saying: if someone wants to murder another, should s/he be allowed to do it? Most people -- including him -- said no, that should not be allowed. Therefore, that idea wasn't a very good one. I never have argued for any activity X that if X were permissable, then people would also feel they have the right to murder others. /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: TURTLE Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/24/90 01:20:06 Message Number 9999 >Human nature being what it is, 90% of the human beings on the planet >aren't going to question /any/ church. Unfortunately, all too true. And those who join new religions don't always do so from the best of intentions. /Dragonfly/ =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: ALL Subject: Message #10,000 Date & Time: 10/24/90 01:26:14 Message Number 10000 By the way, what's my prize for writing message 10,000? /Dragonfly/ =========== From: CRYSTAL To: BEATLE Subject: stuff Date & Time: 10/24/90 02:38:12 Message Number 10001 Do you have the whole set? My sister had all the figures, and ships, it was neat. We played with the figures all the time. We even had the Darth Vader case. But they are all gone now. They were sold at a yard sale before moving to Ft. Myers. If I recall they were almost given away. * CRYSTAL * =========== From: BEATLE To: RUFUS Subject: FLAG BURNING Date & Time: 10/24/90 06:43:09 Message Number 10002 > "No, I'm their biggest fan... Alight. That's where I draw the line. When you start inseriting the name Beatles in where New Kids went, then you're asking for it (what it is, I don't know)... Besides, the Beatles dolls didn't come along until a few years back. In the sixties there were inflatable Beatles. =========== From: BEATLE To: TURTLE Subject: Armag. Date & Time: 10/24/90 06:48:43 Message Number 10003 > I charged people money. Geesssh. I'm too moral for that (and stupid, in one sense)... I probably should charge money for that. Then I won't always be broke :) I did learn something yesterday, though. You can't hook an IBM VGA monitor to a Tandy 1000 SL... =========== From: BEATLE To: TURTLE Subject: CAFFINE Date & Time: 10/24/90 06:55:06 Message Number 10004 Hey, *I'm* literate and I like to get blasted off my ass every now and > then! Well, I havene't had a chance to see you be literate after being blasted off your ass. =========== From: BEATLE To: TURTLE Subject: weirdness Date & Time: 10/24/90 06:56:40 Message Number 10005 > BEATLE!!! DUDE!!! TURTLE!!! DUDE!!! I downloaded the script about that long ago! I wrote that message so that possibly it could be put to /use/... you know, all those neat little things the people get to do. And it's not very likely I'm going to get to (or want to) show up at Sarasota Square Mall to see it in the near future.... =========== From: BEATLE To: CRYSTAL Subject: stuff Date & Time: 10/24/90 07:05:48 Message Number 10006 > Do you have the whole set? No, but I've got quite a bit. OUt of a total of about 95 figures created, I've got about 86/88 of them. I have the Darth Vader case and a mess of odd playsets and ships. =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Barb's Date & Time: 10/25/90 21:30:34 Message Number 10009 If you take a person's shoe size and divide it by the caliber of a bullet fired at him, you'll get the distance (in centimeters) that person can move before being hit. hhh don't forget the inverse relationship between the shoesize/calibre is related to the square of the pucker factor and directly related to the inertia stress of initial evasive manuevers. =========== From: JONBOY To: ALL Subject: From a galaxy.. Date & Time: 10/25/90 21:56:09 Message Number 10010 Durn! Not enuf lines in the title block! Hi folks - I decided to crawl from beneath the rock of MSDOS hardware programming to get a breath of fresh air. Ahhhhhhh! Thanks! I needed it folks! BTW - where the hell is everyone? Is Black Magic too busy anymore? =========== From: SPELLWIND To: TURTLE Subject: You HOSERS Date & Time: 10/26/90 02:39:59 Message Number 10012 It's just that either sex that claims it's superior really pisses me off... it's bigotry and I despise bigotry in any form. (Though it's the males claiming superiority most often) =========== From: SPELLWIND To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/26/90 02:42:46 Message Number 10013 Buddhism is different... Not ALL male gods, just the bad ones. There are two incarnations of male deities. For instance, Take the Anibus..and Osiris. these are the example of the different. Dionysus and 'God' are the same. Give patronage to Dionysus for joy and happiness or find that your life takes a bad twist(This is a bad example) there is an incarnation of a good male god, and an evil male god. In other words, there are two male gods, and they represent the two didderent types of gods. They ARE the same god, figuratively, in diffe- rent incarnations... =========== From: SPELLWIND To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Message #10,000 Date & Time: 10/26/90 02:56:50 Message Number 10014 The newcomer Dragonfly GOT THE 10,000!!!!! Woah! =========== From: SPELLWIND To: SPELLWIND Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/26/90 03:02:36 Message Number 10015 They/He are/is NOT the only god/s that exist, I was just clarifying the male side of the god/s.... =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: David Duke Date & Time: 10/26/90 17:39:02 Message Number 10017 >Our greatest enemy is ourselves, and our fears at the base of our >hearts. Gee, that's profound! Actually, my greatest enemy is IBM, and the fear at the base of my heart that people will start buying so many PS/1's that they'll pop up in K-Mart. =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Georgie Date & Time: 10/26/90 17:40:54 Message Number 10018 Um, the effectiveness of private watchdogs aside (do you really believe that without the authority of law behind them, a private watchdog could force changes on GM?), without the Department of Transportation I-75 would soon be in even worse shape than it already is. We need a Federal government to provide services that span states (like: fund the interstate system), to provide services that the states are not equipped to provide (international relations, defense, and the like), and to arbitrate matters between states (ie, arbitrate laws (hence, the Supreme Court) and the like). =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/26/90 17:44:55 Message Number 10019 >But without the Crusades, Europe would have remained the closed world >it was during the Dark Ages... And why was it a closed world during the Dark Ages, hmm? In any event, I'm not convinced that going out and killing your neighbors is a legitimate alternative to remaining isolationist... =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/26/90 17:47:36 Message Number 10020 >Astronomy was invented well before the Roman Empire, in Persia, >I believe. Yes. That's what I just said. Astronomy was a Persian innovation; the Persian Empire was Muslim. >History has been around... The science of history, I believe I credited to the Muslims. That is, an approach to history that is not based on folklore and championing of the "right" side. Ibn' Khaldun is generally regarded in most circles as being the world's first true historian. A guess as to his faith, please? =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: Armag. Date & Time: 10/26/90 17:50:40 Message Number 10021 >Geesssh. I'm too moral for that... Could be why you're always broke. :) >You can't hook an IBM VGA monitor to a Tandy 1000 SL... Well, you CAN, but it won't work. Yoiu need to connect a VGA monitor to a machine with a VGA graphics card, as a general rule. =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: From a galaxy.. Date & Time: 10/26/90 17:54:57 Message Number 10023 >BTW - where the hell is everyone? I'm somewhere outside of Seattle, Washington, looking for my luggage. Black Magic is preoccupied with a number of bizzare personal crises involving a few things I ought not talk about over a tapped phone line, and has pretty much given up BBSing. =========== From: BURNEY To: TURTLE Subject: BTC tm Date & Time: 10/26/90 20:56:56 Message Number 10024 Sorry to take so long to get back to everybody. I've been VERY busy the last few days. To answer your question, I dont't know whether that bothers me or not (even if it may or may not be true). Even if it is documented in some book(s), that of course does not make in necessarily true. You on the other hand can use that same argument regarding the Bible. But I respond to that with 'all religions are matter of faith'. I would like to believe christianity is the product of a group of people who know what they are pushing. =========== From: BURNEY To: TURTLE Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/26/90 21:05:10 Message Number 10025 My apologies, I stand corrected. =========== From: BURNEY To: TURTLE Subject: BTC tm Date & Time: 10/26/90 21:06:30 Message Number 10026 >neither one of you seems to be willing to re-examine...... touche' =========== From: BURNEY To: TURTLE Subject: term prgs. Date & Time: 10/26/90 21:09:15 Message Number 10027 Is there some external device that can be installed to accomplish the same thing (at a reasonable cost)? =========== From: BURNEY To: BEATLE Subject: CAFFINE Date & Time: 10/26/90 21:25:01 Message Number 10029 >I wanted to name our team the 'Diet Dr. Dew Crew'... Catchy name.. =========== From: BURNEY To: BEATLE Subject: Cmdr Date & Time: 10/26/90 21:27:31 Message Number 10030 Despite my very early messages after becoming a user of this bbs, I really kinda like my Commodore. I can write my own programs on it, The software is just as good as any other computers (the screen displays leave a lot to be desired though). Do I detect a bit of self pity that you have a Commodore. There are more CBM's out there than any other computer any where. =========== From: BURNEY To: BEATLE Subject: geeks Date & Time: 10/26/90 21:33:10 Message Number 10031 You should be proud of who you are. In the future you'll (maybe) snub your nose at them for not paying attention in school. YOU may have the reputation of a geek (maybe not) now but YOU have the destinct advantage later. Especially when you're pulling down big bucks later and they're working for a mfg or K-Mart. I did /OK/ in school, but I wish I paid more attention. =========== From: BURNEY To: BEATLE Subject: STAR TREK Date & Time: 10/26/90 21:39:55 Message Number 10032 I see your point, however I HAVE SEEN episodes when she does interfere ( cannot remember show name...never pay attention to names [see earlier message]). I remember thinking to myself...'she'd piss me off if she did that to me'.... =========== From: BEATLE To: TURTLE Subject: Armag. Date & Time: 10/27/90 00:20:46 Message Number 10033 > ...to a machine with a VGA graphics card, as a general rule. Which I found out earlier today... :) Boy, I've got to think more about this stuff... =========== From: BEATLE To: BURNEY Subject: Cmdr Date & Time: 10/27/90 00:25:26 Message Number 10034 > Do I detect a bit of self pity... Well, I like my Commodore. I am quite impressed with it because of what it actually does with what it has compared to what others should be able to do... I would rather have an Amiga, tho, since I go for graphics and sound, and the Amiga is extremely good for that. =========== From: BEATLE To: BURNEY Subject: geeks Date & Time: 10/27/90 00:27:24 Message Number 10035 > You should be proud of who you are.. Well, I am, but I don't like the sort of social situations it provides ... Combining my physical appearance and my personality seems to total up to a social outcast (or as I like to sayone of the "strange medium guys with bad haircuts".) My problem is that I often appologize for everything, I'm kinda passive, and I often miss things that have been said and/or put my foot in my mouth. In other words, I am pretty happy with who I am when alone or with people I'm comfortable with, but extremely flustered and self-conscious when dealing with others... And, as you may see, I feel a need to share my problems and try to get solutions from just about anyone. That's another of the problems.. (that is unless I'm mistaken in assuming most people don't really want to hear about my problems.) =========== From: BEATLE To: ALL Subject: An issue Date & Time: 10/27/90 00:41:13 Message Number 10036 I saw a show todaytalking about drug legalization. I thought that it would be a great topic to discuss here, since we're all very opinionated people. My position was never really determined until now. Sometime back I might have strongly opposed drug legalization. Now, however, I believe a different angle on the problem needs to be tried. I'd like to see what everyone thinks of this. =========== From: CORWYN To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Add another Date & Time: 10/27/90 03:25:02 Message Number 10037 Are you really as brain dead as you seem? > We don't /need/ most of the intestinal bacteria.. we just end up with the runs eternally.. fun huh? If we didn't have F/B's and other people who are unsatisfied with the current state of affairs, we'd sure have one hell of a corrupt and in- efficient government. - Corwyn =========== From: THUMPER 1 To: ALL Subject: Drug legaliz... Date & Time: 10/27/90 05:21:08 Message Number 10038 As far as legalizing drug use in the states, why not? (shrug.) We're smashed with all the "SAY NO TO DRUGS" propaganda any way. We're told what drugs will do to us, and yet some people seem to "JUST SAY YES". If a person wants to obtain any type of contraband (OOOOOOOO!! BIG WORD) he/she can pretty much go to the corner and get some. We have all the information, it's just a choice of "Do I Really Want To Do This To Myself???" Just remember that you've been warned. =========== From: BURNEY To: SPELLWIND Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/27/90 22:19:43 Message Number 10039 >...neverthought to question... >...../brainwashed/..... >....hammered in beliefs.... It seems to me, you're the one who is brainwashed. That is a completely ignorant remark. You obviously know nothing of the /real/ religion of christianity. =========== From: BURNEY To: BEATLE Subject: ??? Date & Time: 10/27/90 22:26:25 Message Number 10040 What are jelly babies?????? =========== From: BURNEY To: TURTLE Subject: furry art Date & Time: 10/27/90 22:42:17 Message Number 10041 >furry art...long story... We're listen'n =========== From: BURNEY To: DRAGONFLY Subject: David Duke Date & Time: 10/27/90 22:46:59 Message Number 10042 >people are afraid of ....different than themselves (you get the point) Yes I generally agree with that, However, people are also a product of there enviroment. If I saw on the news constantly the arrests of lets say CHRISTIANS for religious crimes, it would be natural for me to be fearful of christians fearing I might become a victim. If I never saw the same about blacks, whites, hispanics, etc I would not be fearful of them. My point being, as I said before, Preople are a product of there enviroment. That goes for religion, personal prejudices, political views, etc. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: BURNEY Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/28/90 16:16:22 Message Number 10045 Au Contraire, I think I know it better that you.... =========== From: BEATLE To: BURNEY Subject: ??? Date & Time: 10/28/90 19:13:17 Message Number 10046 > What are jelly babies?????? Jelly beans. =========== From: DIONYSUS To: SPELLWIND Subject: You HOSERS Date & Time: 10/28/90 21:12:01 Message Number 10047 Shut up. We don't need your kind around here. =========== From: DIONYSUS To: SPELLWIND Subject: Christian affai Date & Time: 10/28/90 21:13:21 Message Number 10048 Ya got the right idea. Give me lots of money and sacrifice many virgins to me. =========== From: DIONYSUS To: TURTLE Subject: PS/1 Date & Time: 10/28/90 21:14:54 Message Number 10049 And what's wrong with that, may I ask? =========== From: DIONYSUS To: BEATLE Subject: ??? Date & Time: 10/28/90 21:22:34 Message Number 10050 Remember all of those neat dead baby jokes? Jelly babies let you test them experimentally. ===========