PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 07/14 1:22 AM Number of notes exported: 69 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Topic: ROBERT JORDAN ^^^^^^^^^^^^ =============== Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: ALL Date: 07/01 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 6:42 PM 1992 by Richard S. Millard The Wheel of Time An Introductory Chronology and Prosopography October 30, 1992 This paper attempts to construct a general chronology for the major events of the thirty years preceding the action of The Wheel of Time, and to establish some basic biographical facts regarding the major characters. A future paper will present a detailed chronology of the years 997-998 NE, in which the events described in the books occur. This paper also notes and attempts to correct a few minor inconsistencies and errors in the books. In this paper the following abbreviations will be used EW - The Eye of the World GH - The Great Hunt DR - The Dragon Reborn SR - The Shadow Rising l page citations will be to the hardcover editions; chapter citations will be provided for the benefit of readers using other editions. 1. Known Dates. This chronology will be based on three known dates given in the Glossary and which are assumed to be correct (a) the Aiel War commenced in 976 NE and ended in 978 NE (SR p.684, Glossary under "Aiel War"); (b) Tigraine, the Daughter-Heir of Andor, disappeared in 972 NE (DR p. 593, Glossary under "Tigraine"; and (c) the false dragon Logain was active in 997 NE (SR p.689, Glossary under "Dragon, false"). It is also stated in the Glossary that Siuan Sanche was elevated to the Amyrlin Seat in 985 NE (DR p. 591, Glossary under "Siuan Sanche"; note, however, that this date was not included in the SR Glossary entry). However, for the reasons stated below, this appears to be an error and has been disregarded. An alternative date is suggested below. 2. Date of Action. As noted above, the Glossary indicates that the false dragon Logain was active in 997 NE. Since Logain began his war and was captured and gentled during the action of The Eye of the World (EW p. 167, ch. 14 and p. 496, ch. 39) we know that Moiraine's first visit to Emond's Field occurred in the spring of 997 NE. This date is consistent with statements that the Aiel war was "nearly twenty years ago" (GH p. 108-109, ch. 8, and SR p. 117, ch. 8), with Moiraine's statement that she and the Amyrlin have known of the birth of the Dragon Reborn for "nearly twenty years" (GH p. 52, ch. 5), and with the statement during the second year of the action that Gitara Moroso, the former Keeper of the Chronicles who died at the time of the Dragon's rebirth, has been dead twenty years (SR p. 29, ch. 1). As discussed below, this date is also consistent with the ages given for the major characters. 3. Biographical Data. On the basis of the dates given above, and the other biographical data cited below, we can develop the following brief biographies (a) Rand al'Thor. Rand was born on Dragonmount in the battle that ended the Aiel War (see, for example, EW p. 73, ch. 6 and GH p. 109, ch. 8). It was winter and snowing at the time (GH p. 108, ch. 8). Rand was therefore born in the winter of 978 NE, and is 19 at the time of the =============== Reply 1 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:11 PM attack on Emond's Field. This is consistent with the statements that he, Mat and Perrin are "not yet 20" (EW, p. 438, ch. 34), that Moiraine and Siuan Sanche have been searching for him for "nearly 20 years" (GH, p. 52, ch. 5) and that his birth was "nearly 20 years ago" (GH p. 108, ch. 8). Rand is the younger son of Tigraine, Daughter-Heir of Andor, who disappeared in 972 NE, joined the Maidens of the Spear that same year, and was adopted into the Chumai sept of the Taardad Aiel. (For his resemblance to Tigraine, see DR p. 373, ch. 39; DR p. 446, ch. 45; and SR p. 267, ch. 23; for the story of his mother's journey to the Waste and acceptance by the Aiel, see SR p. 392, ch. 34 and p. 664, ch. 57). Rand is half-brother to Galadedrid Damodred (see below), the son of Tigraine and Taringail Damodred, and is the nephew of Tigraine's brother, Luc, who disappeared in the Blight in 971 NE (GH p. 590, Glossary under "Luc"). Rand's father was Janduin, of the Iron Mountain sept of the Taardad Aiel (SR p. 664, ch. 57), clan chief of the Taardad and leader of the Aiel in the Aiel War. Janduin was killed in the Blight, probably by Rand's uncle Luc, shortly after the end of Aiel War (SR p. 393, ch. 34). Rand was found on the slopes of Dragonmount following the last battle of the Aiel War (EW p. 73, ch. 6; GH p. 109-110, ch. 8) by Tam al'Thor, a shepherd and farmer from the Two Rivers, who had left home to join the army of Illian. Tam al'Thor had served in the Whitecloak War and two wars with Tear, had become a blademaster, a master of the sword, and had risen to Second Captain of the Companions (GH p. 105, ch. 8), an elite unit of the army of Illian that accompanied the general of an army and were used as shock troops at the key points of battles (SR p. 505, ch. 45). After serving with the army of Illian in the Aiel War, Tam al'Thor returned to the Two Rivers with his wife, Kari, from Caemlyn, and Rand, still an infant (GH p. 105, ch. 8). (b) Perrin Aybara. Since we know that Perrin was born "within weeks" of Rand (EW p. 94, ch. 8), he must have been born sometime in the winter of 978 NE, and is also 19 when the story begins. Perrin was raised on a farm half a day east of Emond's Field, almost to the Waterwood, and is the oldest of four children. His younger siblings, Adora, b. 982, Deselle, b. 986 and Paetram, b. 989 (SR p. 327, ch. 29) are killed by Trollocs in 998 NE. Perrin has been apprenticed to Haral Luhan, the blacksmith of Emond's Field. (c) Matrim Cauthon. Mat Cauthon was also born "within weeks" of Rand al'Thor (EW p. 94, ch. 8), in 978, and is therefore 19 at the time of Moiraine's first visit to Emond's Field at Winternight, 997. Mat is the son of Abell and Natti Cauthon and the oldest of three children. His younger sisters, Eldrin and Bodewhin, together with their mother, are captured and held by Whitecloaks in The Shadow Rising, until rescued by Perrin Aybara. (d) Egwene al'Vere. We know that Egwene is two years younger than Rand (EW p. 35, ch. 3, GH p. 31, ch. 3 and SR p. 57, ch. 2). She must therefore have been born in 980 NE, and would be 17 when we first meet her. She is the youngest daughter of Brandelwyn ("Bran") al'Vere, proprietor of the Winespring Inn and mayor of Emond's Field, and his wife Marin (SR p. 329, ch. 29). (e) Nynaeve al'Meara. In Nynaeve's case, errors and =============== Reply 2 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:17 PM inconsistencies in the books present some problems. On the one hand, we are told that Nynaeve is seven years older than Egwene (DR p. 515, ch. 51), which would place her birth in 973 NE. This is consistent with her statement that she can "just remember" Tam and Kari al'Thor returning with Rand to Emond's Field (EW p. 202, ch. 16; she would have been about five at the time) and that she is "only a few years older" than Rand (GH p. 70, ch. 6), just enough older to have looked after him when he was little (GH, p. 115, ch. 8). She would then have been 24 at the time of Moiraine's visit to Emond's Field. On the other hand, we are also told that Nynaeve is up to a year older than Galad (DR p. 150, ch. 16). Since Galad cannot have been born after 972 (when his mother, Tigraine, disappeared) and was likely born somewhat earlier (see below), this would place Nynaeve's birth in approximately 971 NE or even earlier. This would make her at least nine years older than Egwene and at least 26 at the time she first meets Moiraine. Since Nynaeve's youth is emphasized so strongly (for example, Moiraine calls her "child" at their first meeting, EW p. 20, ch. 2, and she is described as "little more than a girl", GH p. 47, ch. 4), the 973 date seems somewhat more likely. On the basis of this date, Nynaeve is at least one and more likely two or three years younger than Galad. Nynaeve's parents are dead, and she seem to have no siblings (EW p. 196, ch. 16). When the books begin, she is the Wisdom of Emond's Field (EW p. 7, ch. 1), having served her apprenticeship with the previous Wisdom, Mistress Barran (EW p. 268, 270, ch. 21). (f) Elayne. Elayne, of House Trakand, the Daughter-Heir of Andor, is approximately the same age as Egwene al'Vere (GH p. 300, ch. 24) and approximately two years younger than Rand al'Thor (EW p. 499, ch. 40). Accordingly, we may place her birth in 980 NE. She would be 17 when she first meets Rand. She is the daughter of Queen Morgase and Taringail Damodred, the sister of Gawyn and the half-sister of Galad, and is Moiraine Damodred's niece (see below). (g) Gawyn. Gawyn is slightly older than Elayne (EW p. 499, ch. 40), and "much like" Rand in age (GH p. 392, ch. 32). He must therefore have been born in approximately 978 NE, and would be about 19 when the story begins. He is the son of Queen Morgase and Taringail Damodred, the brother of Elayne, the half-brother of Galad and Moiraine's nephew. (h) Galad. Galadedrid Damodred is the son of Tigraine and Taringail Damodred, and must therefore have been born before Tigraine disappeared in 972 NE. Unless Tigraine abandoned Galad before his first birthday, he must actually have been born in 971 NE or even earlier. If we accept the latest of the possible dates for Nynaeve's birth (see above), then Galad must be the older of the two. Of course, it is possible that the date given for Tigraine's disappearance is incorrect (if she disappeared later, then Galad could be younger), but since Tigraine (Shaiel) appeared in the Aiel Waste in 972 (four years before "Laman's Sin" and the beginning of the Aiel War in 976 NE, SR p.392, ch. 34), the 972 date for her disappearance appears to be correct. Galad must be at least 25/26 when we first meet him. Galad is the older =============== Reply 3 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:17 PM half-brother of both Prince Gawyn of Andor and of Rand al'Thor, and is Moiraine's nephew. (i) Moiraine Damodred. Moiraine Damodred is Taringail Damodred's youngest half-sister, and King Laman's niece (SR p. 194, ch. 17). She is therefore the aunt of Taringail's children Galad, Gawyn and Elayne (although her niece and nephews appear to be unaware of this relationship), and sister-in-law to Queen Morgase. She is an Aes Sedai of the Blue Ajah, having been raised to the shawl shortly after the end of the Aiel War in 978 NE (GH p. 270, ch. 22). Since she must have been in her late 20s at the time, she would be in her late 40s, perhaps 46-48, at the time of her first visit to Emond's Field. She is a close friend of Siuan Sanche, the Amyrlin Seat, with whom she was a novice in the White Tower. (j) al'Lan Mandragoran. Lan is the son of al'Akir Mandragoran and his queen el'Leanna, the last king and queen of Malkier (EW p. 595-597, ch. 47). He has been Moiraine Sedai's Warder for "nearly 20 years", since Moiraine was raised to the shawl shortly after the end of the Aiel War (GH p. 270, ch. 22). It appears that Lan is approximately the same age as Moiraine, which would be consistent with Nynaeve's observation that Lan is old enough to be her father (GH p. 114, ch. 8), and with Lord Agelmar's statement that the fall of Malkier, when Lan was an infant, was "fewer than 50 years ago" (EW p. 595, ch. 47). Therefore Lan would also be approximately 46-48 at the time of the first visit to Emond's Field. (k) Aviendha. Aviendha is approximately the same age as Egwene and Elayne (DR p. 360, ch. 38). We may assume that she was born in approximately 980, and thus, like Egwene and Elayne, is approximately 18 when they meet in The Dragon Reborn during 998 NE. Aviendha is described in several locations (DR p. 361, ch. 38 and SR p. 686, Glossary under "Aviendha") as being of the "Bitter Water" sept of the Taardad; the reference to "Nine Valleys" in The Shadow Rising (SR p. 158, ch. 12) is erroneous. (l) Siuan Sanche. Siuan Sanche, the Amyrlin Seat, is the daughter of a poor fisherman's family from the Maule, the port district of Tear (GH p. 46, ch. 4). We are told at least twice, once in 997 NE and once in 998, that she has been the Amyrlin Seat for nearly ten years (GH p. 46, ch. 4; DR p. 116, ch. 12). Later in 998 we are told that she has been Amyrlin for over ten years (SR p. 23, ch. 1). If she had been raised in 985, as stated in the Glossary (DR, p.591, Glossary under "Siuan Sanche"), she would have been Amyrlin 12 or 13 years at the time of these statements. Accordingly, the Glossary date must be wrong (and in fact, the date has been removed from the Glossary in The Shadow Rising). The correct date would seem to be 988, with her tenth anniversary occurring sometime between the statements in The Dragon Reborn and The Shadow Rising. (m) Thom Merrilin. We know little of Thom Merrilin, except that he is a former Court Bard at the court of Andor, in Caemlyn, and an adept player of the Game of Houses. He became the lover of Queen Morgase of Andor in the early 980s, after the death of Taringail Damodred (which cannot have been much before the birth of Elayne in 980). He may have been responsible for the =============== Reply 4 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:17 PM death of Taringail, who seems to have been plotting to kill the Queen and seize power in Andor (SR p. 194, ch 17). His nephew Owyn was captured and gentled by the Red Ajah in approximately 983 (SR p. 77 ch. 4; p. 195, ch. 17), and Thom's attempts to interfere with this brought him afoul of Elaida and led to his breach with Queen Morgase. (n) Min. We know less of Min (Elmindreda) than of any other significant character - not even her last name. When we first meet her she is working at an inn in Baerlon, but we do not know whether this is her native city, and we know nothing of her family. She is described as "a little older" than Rand (EW p. 180, ch. 15), and Mat once described her, in jest, as "nearly as old as Nynaeve" (EW p. 569, ch 45). It is likely that Mat exaggerates, but Min is still likely to be a year or two older than Rand; say 20 or 21 when they first meet. (o) Zarine Bashere. Zarine (Faile) is the same age as Perrin (DR p. 318, ch. 33 and p. 333, ch. 35), 20 years old when they meet in The Dragon Reborn. She is the oldest surviving child of Davram, Lord of Bashere, Marshall-General of Saldea and uncle of Queen Tenobia; Faile is thus the Queen's cousin (SR p. 471, ch. 41). Since Queen Tenobia is eight years older than Faile (SR p. 649, ch. 56), the Queen would have been born in 970 NE, and would now be 28. Faile has at least one surviving sibling, a younger brother Maedin, now 18 (SR p. 472, ch. 41). 4. General Chronological Table. On the basis of the foregoing dates, we can construct the following general chronology for the years leading up to beginning of The Wheel of Time Year Event 970 Queen Tenobia of Saldea born 971 Luc disappears in the Blight; [Galad born?] 972 Tigraine disappears; Shaiel joins Aiel 973 Nynaeve born 975 [The Sucession; contention for throne of Andor] 976 Laman's Sin; Aiel War begins 977 [Min born?] 978 Aiel War ends; Rand, Perrin, Mat, Gawyn, Faile born; Moiraine, Siuan Sanche raised to Aes Sedai; Moiraine meets Lan 980 Egwene, Elayne, Aviendha, Maedin Bashere born 981 [Taringail Damodred dies?] 983 [Thom Merrilin's nephew Owyn gentled; Thom leaves Queen Morgase] 988 Siuan Sanche raised to Amyrlin Seat 997 The Eye of the World (spring) The Great Hunt (summer, fall) 998 The Dragon Reborn (spring) The Shadow Rising (summer) It is remotely conceivable (if unlikely, given what we know of Morgase's character), that Thom's relationship with Morgase predated Taringail's death; even that Thom is in fact Gawyn's and Elayne's natural father. If this were the case, Elayne would be correct in her repeated insistence that Galad is not her brother. =============== Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: ALL Date: 07/01 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 6:48 PM Please note that the words "maybe," "perhaps," and "I believe" are scattered in ample amounts in this analysis of the prophecies. I tried to include as many possibilities as I could think of and as many possibilities as other could think up. That still doesn't mean that we've hit on the right possibility. Just be sure to remember that no interpretation contained herein is 100% for sure correct...Also, if you have any ideas, please feel free to share them with me so I can add them to this analysis. Moiraine/Carolyn BJRK57C@prodigy.com An Analysis of the Prophecies of the Wheel of Time (to be considered the compliment to the May 29, 1994 compilation by Carolyn Fusinato) June 29, 1994 by Carolyn Fusinato w/ help from the analysis by various individuals on aol (Aaron17, Jman214, TaxLaw) as well as from RS Millard's October, 92 compilation. 1. Histories from the Fourth Age. 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04 2. Prophecy. i. The Karaethon Cycle. a. portions of the Karaethon Cycle as recounted by various characters 2.01, 2.02, 2.03, 2.04, 2.05, 2.06, 2.07, 2.08, 2.09, 2.10, 2.11 b. commentaries and translations from the Third Age on the Karaethon Cycle 2.12, 2.13, 2.14, 2.15, 2.16 ii. prophecy pertaining to a certain people. a. The Jendai Prophecy. 2.17 b. The Prophecy of Rhuidean 2.18, 2.19, 2.20, 2.21, 2.22, 2.23 iii. dark prophecy. 2.24 a. Verin's interpretation of the dark prophecy 2.25 iv. Prophecy of the Horn of Valere. 2.26, 2.27, 2.28, 2.29 3. Foretellings. ii. Elaida's Foretellings. 3.01, 3.02 ii. Diendre's Foretellings. 3.03 iii. Gitara Moroso's Foretellings. 3.04, 3.05 4. Dreams. i. Egwene's dreams. 4.01, 4.02, 4.03, 4.04, 4.05, 4.06 ii. Perrin's dreams. 4.07, 4.08, 4.09 iii. Wise One's dreams. 4.10, 4.11, 4.12, 4.13, 4.14, 4.15, 4.16, 4.17 iv. Morin's dreams 4.18 v. Sorelle's dreams. 4.19 vi. Rand's dreams. 4.20, 4.21, 4.22, 4.23, 4.24, 4.25, 4.26, 4.27, =============== Reply 1 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:05 PM 4.28, 4.29, 4.30, 4.31, 4.32 5. Visions. i. Min's visions. 5.01, 5.02, 5.03, 5.04, 5.05, 5.06, 5.07, 5.08, 5.09, 5.10, 5.11, 5.12, 5.13, 5.14, 5.15, 5.16 ii. Aelfinn's visions a. Mat's questions and the Eelfinn's answers 5.17 b. What we know of Rand's answers 5.18, 5.19, 5.20, 5.21, 5.22, 5.23, 5.24 c. What we know of Moiraine's answers 5.25, 5.26, 5.27, 5.28 6. Ter'angreal used by the Wise Ones in Rhuidean. i. Aviendha. 6.01, 6.02, 6.03, 6.04 ii. Moiraine. 6.05, 6.06, 6.07 7. Eelfinn. 7.01, 7.02 1. Histories from the Fourth Age. 1.01 History of the breaking of the world. 1.02 "The mountain" must be Dragonmount. The portion that states that the Rand should "sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs" may indicate that the song that the Tuatha'an are searching for will be found-perhaps by Rand. Artur Hawkwing's sword is named Justice, but the exerpt stating "the great sword of justice defend us" may merely be metephorical. "Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time" may have some relevance to Perrin's dream which concerns Rand (4.08). 1.03 The "Sword held in the Stone" is Callandor (obvious allusion to excalliber). It is interesting that it states that "no hand but his should wield...[Callandor]. This indicate that the theory that Logain will draw Callandor from the Heart of the Stone is only speculation. 1.04 Rand led the Aiel out of the Waste to battle with the Shaido and those that follwed Couladin. 2. Prophecy. i. The Karaethon Cycle. a. portions of the Karaethon Cycle as recounted by various characters 2.01 The Aiel also known as the People of the Dragon came to the Stone at the end of TDR they raided it, but Rand took the stone after he drew Callandor and after he defeated Ishamael. The Stone has fallen. 2.02 Could mean just about anything. The world is definately in tourmoil, but it cannot be described as "shattered" yet. Neither has he made it anew. 2.03 The first heron was received fighting Ishamael in one of the Mirrors while traveling with Hurin and Loial and hunting the horn in TGH. The second heron was received at the end of TGH when he fought Ishamael again in the mist above Falme. Here is where there is disagreement. Some contest that Rand has yet to be marked a second time by the Dragon. This is based partly on the fact that we are not sure what price he must pay. The first heron sent =============== Reply 2 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:05 PM him to Falme with the Horn. The second saw him named the Dragon Reborn. The first marking of the Dragon was for the lost remembrance of the Aiel's past as Da'shain, servants to the Aes Sedai. The theory is also based on some other prophesy, namely one of Perrin's dreams (4.08)and two of Egwene's dreams (4.02, 4.04). 2.04 "Twice dawns the day..." is probably the eclipse theory, but some think Rand will use balefire (even if he did, he wouldn't travel back in time, the time that elapsed just would not have happened.) "Once for mourning" may be Rand's death or someone elses. It's unclear. Once for birth, may be for the birth of the Fourth Age, or for the birth of Rand's supposed offspring. It has been speculated that by some off chance, Aviendha conceived. Not untirely unlikely...considering. "Red on black.." blood letting-Rand supposes that it will be from the wound he received in Falme- doesn't necessarily mean death. Rand will battle with the Dark One in the Pit of Doom. Some believe he will seal himself in with the Dark One this time. 2.05 Rand will face the Dark One in the Last Battle. 2.06 Perrin, Hurin, Ingtar, Mat and Rand rode into Falme, but Ingtar sacrificed himself so that they could escape alive. The watchers are probably the Do Miere A'vron in Falme where he was marked by the Heron the second time and fought Ishamael in the sky ("banner cross the sky in fire") causing him to be named the Dragon Reborn. 2.07 Rand's intentions were to lead the Aiel across the Dragonwall and bind the nations to him by concurring them with the Aiel. He hoped that this would give the world a short time of peace in which they could prepare for the coming of the Dark One. While in service to Rand for this purpose, they will apparently be slain in battle and then almost utterly at the upcoming Battle of Tar Valon. He has already begun destroying them with the leaf when he told them of their origins at the end of TSR. The Aiel once followed the Way of the Leaf. To the Aielman's way of thinking, their ancestors swore to be gai'shain and swore for all of their decendants to be gai'shain. In breaking their oath to the Aes Sedia, their ancestors broke ji'e'toh in taking up the spear, which is nearly the worst thing an Aiel can do. To "bind the nine moons to serve him" must refer to the Seanchan since the only nine moons mentioned is the Court of the Nine Moons which the Empress is reputed to lead. I would guess that the "wound of madness and cutting of hope" that he is to heal is the taint, however the taint isn't a "wound" of madness, but the precipitator of it. Perhaps it is the wound in his side. Egwene said that it felt as though it housed all the evil of the world. If it were filled with the taint, then it would be a wound filled "of madness." The cutting of hope may refer to the taint contained in it. I doubt it. The chains he has broken are those that connected Asmodean and Ishamael to the Dark One. He put Asmodean in chains when he recruted him as a teacher. 2.08 Rand's blood letting will free man from the Dark One. 2.09 "Power of the Shadow made human flesh, wakened to turmoil, strife and ruin." This must refer to the Forsaken. Rand "dances the sword in dreams and mist." The =============== Reply 3 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:05 PM fight in Falme is the dancing of the sword in the mist and he has fought with the sword in dreams many times. He secured Asmodean as his teacher, thus fulfilling the segment "...chains the Shadowsworn to his will..." "From the city, lost and forsaken..."-Rhuidean- he has led the Aiel to war w/ the Shaido in Cairhien. The Aiel are not broken yet, though he has told them of their ancestry. The ancient dream may be Tel'aran'rhiod or it may be the Tuath'an's dream to find the song, or it may be the Ter'angreal in Rhuidean that shows the Wise Ones and Clan Chiefs the Aiel's history. 2.10 The Karaethon prophecy makes no mention of Perrin or Mat. 2.11 "Into the heart..." Into the Heart of the Stone. "his sword..." Callandor. "to hold their hearts..." to assure the Tairens of his return thus securing his hold of Tear. "Who draws it out shall follow after,/What hand shall grasp that fearful blade?" It has been speculated that Logain would draw Callandor from the Stone. This line does indicate that someone other than the Dragon Reborn will draw Callandor. However, perhaps it means who will be the Dragon Reborn in the next age and is questioning what new face will Lews Therin/Rand al'Thor wear in the next age when he shall draw it from the Stone again. b. commentaries and translations from the Third Age on the Karaethon Cycle 2.12 Nations shattering, the Dark One gains power in the world again...Lews Therin will be reborn as Rand al'Thor and be man's salvation in the Last Battle. This seems to be another translation of the same portion of the Karaethon Cycle that Siuan quoted (2.02). 2.13 interpretation of 2.06 2.14 Would seem to be another translation of the same passage that was translated in 2.12 and 2.02. 2.15 Another translation of the same passage as translated in 2.11, but it includes the portion that foretells Rand's birth by a Far Dareis Mai (Shaiel who is Tigraine). 2.16 Nothing vastly different from the previous passages besides one portion which states "The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised." Perhaps this is a reference to the Sharrans or perhaps only a part of it is. The wall may refer to Sharra or to the Shining Walls of Tar Valon. ii. prophecy pertaining to a certain people. a. The Jendai Prophecy. 2.17 Rand channels. Rand holds Callandor. The People of the Dragon have taken the stone (at his call?-not exactly...). The Stone of Tear has fallen, war...The Seanchan have returned and the Corenne was halted by Rand, the Whitecloaks, the Shienarans and the Heroes of the Horn in Falme for the first time. Evidently they will be driven back again as the wording would imply. Moiraine serves him, after a fashion, though none that I know of have knelt to wash his feet with their hair. That may be metephorical or it may come to pass to the letter. Whtever, it is a biblical allusion. b. The Prophecy of Rhuidean 2.18 If the Aiel fail to save the Aes Sedai from the Seanchan, the Aes Sedai will be captured and forced as =============== Reply 4 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:05 PM damane to slay the Aiel. 2.19 Rand came from the Two Rivers, but his biological father was Janduin. He went to Rhuidean and then lead them from Rhuidean to Cairhien to fight the Shaido. "Under this sign he will conquer" may have two meanings. First, he slew the Darkhounds under the ancient Aes Sedai symbol in Rhidean and then he took Cairhien under a banner with the symbol on it. Undoubtably both or either would satisfy the prophecy. 2.20 Dragon Reborn may not be the Car'a'carn, but he is... 2.21 "the stone that never falls..." Tear. He is Aiel by his father Janduin, but he was raised by the blood of Manetheren in the Two Rivers. He came out of Rhuidean at dawn and he has kept the Aiel together. "He will take you back" may refer to him taking the Aiel back across the Dragonwall or it may mean he will taken them back to serve Aes Sedai..."and he will destroy you..." Probably refers to his destroying them by telling them of the Da'shain. 2.22 "yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live." Rand will slay the Aiel in battle, perhaps against the nations or perhaps against the Seanchan at a battle at the footsteps of Tar Valon. 2.23 Aiel by Janduin, raised by the blood of Manetheren. iii. dark prophecy. 2.24 Lanfear is loose. "ancient war" good vs. evil. "Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still..." may be Asmodean, or Rand, or not prophecy at all. Tar Valon will be taken. "death beyond dying" may support the sealed with the Dark One theory in that he would be sealed forever with no chance to be reincarnated to live again. "life eternal" would mean serving the Dark One. Luc and Isam(Luc is brother to Tigraine and disappeared into the blight a year before his sister disappeared. His House name is Mantear. Isam is the son of Breyen whose attempt to seize the throne of Malkier for her husband (Lain Mandragoran) resulted in Malkier's fall to the Blight) have some bond together probably not unlike the Padan Fain/Mordeth bond except one and thus both have access to Tel'aran'rhiod. It is speculated that like the meshed personality of Fain/Mordeth, Ordieth, Slayer is the meshed personality of Luc/Isam. The end of an age is coming ("Time of Change"). The Do Miere A'vron wait for the return of Artur Hawkwing's decendents. Hawkwing's decendents raze Almoth Plain ("the ancient tree"). "ancient wrong" may refer to those who failed who keep the Oaths and forgot about Uther and his expedition or it may refer to the Aiel because they abandoned the Way of the Leaf. a. Verin's interpretation of the dark prophecy 2.25 explains most of Dark Prophecy. I basically restated it above. iv. Prophecy of the Horn of Valere. 2.26 "In the last lorn fight, 'gainst the fall of long night..." clearly prophecizes the horn's fate to be used in the last battle to prevent the victory of the Dark One. "For the grave is no bar to my call." The horn can call the dead heroes from death so that they may fight in the =============== Reply 5 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:05 PM damane to slay the Aiel. 2.19 Rand came from the Two Rivers, but his biological father was Janduin. He went to Rhuidean and then lead them from Rhuidean to Cairhien to fight the Shaido. "Under this sign he will conquer" may have two meanings. First, he slew the Darkhounds under the ancient Aes Sedai symbol in Rhidean and then he took Cairhien under a banner with the symbol on it. Undoubtably both or either would satisfy the prophecy. 2.20 Dragon Reborn may not be the Car'a'carn, but he is... 2.21 "the stone that never falls..." Tear. He is Aiel by his father Janduin, but he was raised by the blood of Manetheren in the Two Rivers. He came out of Rhuidean at dawn and he has kept the Aiel together. "He will take you back" may refer to him taking the Aiel back across the Dragonwall or it may mean he will taken them back to serve Aes Sedai..."and he will destroy you..." Probably refers to his destroying them by telling them of the Da'shain. 2.22 "yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live." Rand will slay the Aiel in battle, perhaps against the nations or perhaps against the Seanchan at a battle at the footsteps of Tar Valon. 2.23 Aiel by Janduin, raised by the blood of Manetheren. iii. dark prophecy. 2.24 Lanfear is loose. "ancient war" good vs. evil. "Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still..." may be Asmodean, or Rand, or not prophecy at all. Tar Valon will be taken. "death beyond dying" may support the sealed with the Dark One theory in that he would be sealed forever with no chance to be reincarnated to live again. "life eternal" would mean serving the Dark One. Luc and Isam(Luc is brother to Tigraine and disappeared into the blight a year before his sister disappeared. His House name is Mantear. Isam is the son of Breyen whose attempt to seize the throne of Malkier for her husband (Lain Mandragoran) resulted in Malkier's fall to the Blight) have some bond together probably not unlike the Padan Fain/Mordeth bond except one and thus both have access to Tel'aran'rhiod. It is speculated that like the meshed personality of Fain/Mordeth, Ordieth, Slayer is the meshed personality of Luc/Isam. The end of an age is coming ("Time of Change"). The Do Miere A'vron wait for the return of Artur Hawkwing's decendents. Hawkwing's decendents raze Almoth Plain ("the ancient tree"). "ancient wrong" may refer to those who failed who keep the Oaths and forgot about Uther and his expedition or it may refer to the Aiel because they abandoned the Way of the Leaf. a. Verin's interpretation of the dark prophecy 2.25 explains most of Dark Prophecy. I basically restated it above. iv. Prophecy of the Horn of Valere. 2.26 "In the last lorn fight, 'gainst the fall of long night..." clearly prophecizes the horn's fate to be used in the last battle to prevent the victory of the Dark One. "For the grave is no bar to my call." The horn can call the dead heroes from death so that they may fight in the =============== Reply 6 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:05 PM last battle and as we saw at other times (Falme). 2.27 This told us that the those that are called by the Horn of Valere will follow whoever winds it, which is not necessarily true considering Hawkwing's words in TGH at Falme (2.29). 2.28 When Mat sounded the horn the first time, he wasn't thinking of glory. Whether he was thinking of salvation is unclear. Perhaps this is meant for the last battle. 2.29 We discover that the Heroes of the Horn may come to the Horn, but they must follow the Dragon's banner, and the Dragon. 3. Foretellings. ii. Elaida's Foretellings. 3.01 Death/distruction. That whole bit. Not exactly enlightening. 3.02 "...The Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle..." Technically, Rand shouldn't be considered of the Royal line of Andor. He isn't in a position to inherit which this would suggest. Thus, this Foretelling might refer to Tigraine who birthed Rand while she was a Maiden on Dragonmount. ii. Diendre's Foretellings. 3.03 The Aiel have a part to play. Rhuidean. Clearly there was some indication that the Aiel would not keep the Covenant, which explain's Solinda's warning. iii. Gitara Moroso's Foretellings. 3.04 Gitara Morosa Foretelling Rand al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn's, birth. 3.05 This Foretelling sent Tigraine into the Waste to become a Maiden of the Spear and as Shaiel became Janduin's lover and returned to Tar Valon during the Aiel War to give birth to Rand. "She could not return to her own land..." I'm not sure what this means. Surely she died on Dragonmount? 4. Dreams. i. Egwene's dreams. 4.01 Ishamael/Ba'alzamon would the man with a mask over his face. Rand sleeping on the Portal Stone with Lanfear/Selene standing over him. I think this indicates that Lanfear brought Rand and company into the Mirror world in the first place. 4.02 Seanchan-Aes Sedai captured as damane forced to fight the White Tower. The captured Aes Sedai may be the Salidar Aes Sedai as Min's visions seem to indicate(5.12). Whitecloaks-Whitecloak invasion of the Two Rivers. Rand-Callandor and Ba'lal's (The Weaver?) trap. Rhuidean I think, but kneeling? I don't remember that. Rand walking into the Pit of Doom. I think this confronting of Seanchan was the skirmish in FOH when Rand and Aviendha were in Seanchan. Perrin-The falcon is Faile and the hawk is Berelain. The falcon on his shoulder probably symbolizes their marriage, while the hawk with a leash in hand(claw as =============== Reply 7 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:05 PM things go) trying to fasten it around his neck symbolizes her struggle to take Perrin away from Faile. Perrin has a beard because of Faile. However as yet, there have been no wolves nearby in the Two Rivers much less a huge pack of wolves that stretched as far as the eye could see for Perrin to lead. Mat-Mat's eye must have been the price for his wishes granted from the Eelfinn(left eye). After having his wishes granted, he was found hanging from Avendesora by Rand in TSR. Whatever is to happen between Mat and the Seanchan was considered nightmarish by Egwene. After his wishes were granted, Mat has been able to speak the Old Tongue fluently. 4.03 Rand-The sword that blazed like a sun is Callandor. He was threatened in TDR in Tel'aran'rhiod while he was traveling to the Stone of Tear. Thus, none of the attacks were "real" in the sense that they were not occuring in the real world despite the fact that wounds acquired in Tel'aran'rhiod remain when waking-except death, in which case one would not wake. Rand was at the time in danger from both Ba'alzamon/Ishamael and Lanfear. Perrin-The wolf is Hopper. The falcon is Faile and the hawk is Berelain. Faile and Berelain fought in TSR over Perrin and Berelain vowed to take Perrin away from Faile and keep him as a pet for as long as he amuses her-unresolved subplot _there._ The stepping off the cliff may be when Perrin decided to give himself up the the Whitecloaks in order to save the village. I doubt it. I believe that this will have something to do with resolving his conflict with the part of him that wants to run with the wolves. The Aiel is Gaul. Min-Min's arival to Tar Valon precipitated the breaking of the Tower by further arrousing Elaida's suspicions. However, Elaida's trap was not aimed at Min specifically and Min was unhurt (physically) by the affair and managed to survive it w/o ever being caught. Thus, she sprung the trap and walked through it without so much as seeing it...until it had caught Suian and Leane and caused the breaking of the Tower. Even now she doesn't realize that her arrival began those events. Mat-Mat suspends the laws of chance, or this dream might refer to his night of dicing in Tar Valon. A Gray Man followed Mat until Mat killed him in Tar Valon. There might have been more than just that one following him. Riding towards Caemlyn to deliver Elayne's letter to Morgase. The woman tossing fireworks is Aludra, the exIlluminator. general-The men and women breaking out of a cage, and then putting on crowns are the Forsaken. The next portion describes just about everyone in the entire series-someone pulling strings. Galldrian's death. Morgase weeping? The succession in Cairhien and the taking of the Stone, possibly others. The Whitecloaks commanded by Dain Bornhald and accompanied by Ordieth/Padan Fain/Mordeth/etc. The Coreene will resume and the Seanchan will return to the mainland to slay the "ancient wrong." 4.04 Seanchan-Really, unknown. Just another reminder that the Seanchan will return. It's hard to say since Egwene =============== Reply 8 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:05 PM refuses to think about their parts in her dreams. Master Luhhan-Master Luhhan was arrested and held in the Whitecloaks encampment as a trap to snag Perrin when he tried to rescue him, his wife and Mat's two sisters. They were rescued anyway, though. Perrin-The fact that the falcon is now on his shoulder may be symbolic of Perrin's marriage to Faile. I still haven't quite "gotten" the whole significance of the choice between the axe and the hammer. I would assume that now that he has a tie to him, he might be less willing to risk himself using violent means to combat the Dark One. Aaron17 says that the choice is to create or to destroy. Mat-Mat made a wager w/ Rhavin/Gaebril and he left Caemlyn to save Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne from Comar. Rand-Rand sneaking across the country to see if he could wield Callandor while the surviving Forsaken, six male (Rahvin, Sammael, Ba'lal, Ishamael, Asmodean, Demandred) and five female (Lanfear, Semirhage, Graendal, Moghedien, and Mesaana), are either hunting him or ignoring him. Some want him to reach Callandor (Ba'lal, Lanfear?) whereas others do not. Perhaps some see him in Tel'aran'rhiod, thus explaining the "flashes." Maybe not. One is Ba'alzamon/Ishamael and he wants Rand dead. Rand is in the dry, dusty chamber for a second time-this is either Rhuidean or it is something to come or it's something I'm not aware of. Now Rand confronts a "horde" of Seanchan-this may support the theory that there will be a battle between the Aiel ("ancient wrong") and the Seanchan (the "seed"). Then confronting Egwene and the women with her (the survivers of Salidar and other renigade Aes Sedai who were not captured by Seanchan?). One of the women with her is Seanchan. This may be Egeanin or it may be some other Seanchan (perhaps the elephant trainer? or the Daughter of the Nine Moons? Naahh.). 4.05 Rand-I don't really know what any of this dream is prophecizing, I can only guess. Rand's on a power trip and maybe going mad? Rand is chained by the Black Ajah w/ the black collar that was created during the Breaking. Rand seals himself inside with the Dark One and continues his fight w/ Shai't*n for the rest of eternity in Shayol Ghul, thus explaining why this is _the_ last battle and not just another conflict? Aiel-The fight between the Shaido and the other clans and the bleakness. Mat-It has been suggested that the Seanchan woman may be the Daughter of the Nine Moons/Tuon (favored by the Empress for succession) and Mat's marriage may be a political one, explaining why they are fighting and the leash. Perrin-Perrin fighting in Tel'aran'rhiod (wolf) and awake with Slayer (the man whose face keeps changing because in the real world he appears to be Luc, Tigraine's brother, and in the dream he appears to be Isam, Lan's cousin and son of Breyen and Lain Mandragoran. Incidentily, I think Mantear may be a Murandian House and that he took his father's House name as Galadrid has taken his father's House name, Damodred. Galad-Became a Whitecloak. The shroud portion would indicate that this decision will have a fatal outcome, but =============== Reply 9 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:05 PM I'm unsure. Gawyn-Gawyn killed his teacher, Hammar and the Master of Arms, Coulin, two people he undoubtably respected for a cause that turned out worthless when he allowed Suian (whom he hates and distruts at the moment) and Leane to escape on Min's request. Marin al'Vere-She could have wept over any number of things since the Whitecloaks and the Trollocs came to Two Rivers. If it isn't fulfilled than, I couldn't guess. 4.06 Rand-Rand assumes control of Andor and Morgase isn't to happy about it. So unhappy, in fact, that she is willing to do anything to get her position back-ask for help from the Whitecloaks? And she doesn't even know yet that the DR has killed Gaebril/Rhavin. In light of the fact that the Forsaken has been removed from the scene, I wonder if she will still consider the sacrifice of bringing the Whitecloaks into Andor neccessary? Perrin-Happily married. His banner and the banner of Manetheren. Aram is a danger to the marriage? Emond's field? Somehow the danger involves his closeness to Perrin, perhaps the danger of a growing friendship rather than his physical proximity. Mat-Mat's deal with the Eelfinn and the blood streaming down his face would then be his part of the bargain. The loss of his left eye. Thom-OK, this is a long shot. Since Thom is apparently saving Moiraine from her little hot spot while Mat is throwing dice and making his payment, I will guess that they will both go to save Moiraine from the Eelfinn through the Tower of Ghenji and at this time, Mat will distract the Eelfinn by dealing with them. He will be forced to make his payment for the previous bargain through the loss of his left eye. general-Maybe the battle of Cairhien or maybe something in the future. ii. Perrin's dreams. 4.07 Mat-I think that this is again Mat's bargain with the Fox people. However, it describes his opponent as having eyes of fire. It may be another reference to his wager with Rhavin which his winning of would probably thwart Ishamael's plans also. Egwene and Nynaeve and Elayne-They walked right into the trap at Tear that they knew was there waiting for them. Liandrin laughing at them and Lanfear laughing at her. 4.08 Rand-I think that this indicates that there will be another marking of the Dragons. However it doesn't mention any more "settling into the skin," so I'm uncertain. Perhaps it is merely indicating that Rand will go mad for a time. Someone is watching Rand and he may not know it. It could have been Sammael diguised as Pevin except that Pevin died from a Trolloc spear at the end of FOH. Perhaps some other Forsaken we haven't met yet is one of Rand's followers. Aaron17 suggest Kadere. Nynaeve and Elayne-hunting the Black Ajah and what they were after in Tel'aran'rhiod in Tarabon. =============== Reply 10 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:11 PM Mat-He could have gone to Emond's Field with Perrin, but he stayed and went through the red stone _ter'angreal._ Flipped a coin at the Portal Stone to decide which symbol would bring them to Rhuidean which resulted in his going to Rhuidean and acquiring his staff bearing a short sword blade. Another coin resulted in his acquisition of his wide brimmed hat from Kadere. Egwene and Amys-I think this adds support to my theory that there will be a battle between the Aiel and the Seanchan at Tar Valon and that it will go badly (thus explaining why Egwene has even a chance at becoming Amyrlin). Since they are in front of the White Tower, you could say that they are defending it. It crumbles because they are loosing. However, it may be that the Tower is in the process of falling anyway and the fact that the White Tower is behind Egwene and Amys is of no consequence. 4.09 Egwene-Those Aes Sedai that are left from Salidar or the Battle of Tar Valon (between the Seanchan and Aiel) or some other calamity will accept Egwene as their leader. Egwene becomes Amyrlin. Both Nynaeve and Elayne are among the survivers. Mat-I think that this is a reference to when the Eelfinn will collect their price. It may have something to do with the Seanchan, though there is no indication of such. Rand-This is probably connected with Min's vision of a beggar's staff. It sounds very Oedipus Rexish, but I wouldn't think that the condition results from the same sequence of events. However, I believe that Rand will do something that he cannot forgive himself for and this is his self punishment. If not, then I cannot guess. iii. Wise One's dreams. 4.10 The Wise One's dreamed that Aviendha would come with Rand by way of the Portal Stone. 4.11 Just included to indicate that we haven't heard half of what they said to Moiraine. 4.12 Reference to the Wise One's prediction in 4.10. 4.13 Connected to 4.10. Amys knew that Rhuarc would come on that day to the slopes of Chaendar. 4.14 Another reference that the Wise One's dreamed of their arrival. 4.15 Lan might not have come, ergo he could possibly have gone with Nynaeve, or he could have died. 4.16 The Wise Ones knew that Moiraine should go through the _ter'angreal_ in Rhuidean, the consequence of not doing so is unknown. 4.17 ...wreath...It is an aiel custom for the female to lay a bridal wreath in front of the man she wishes to marry. If they were so desperate to make Rand see Aiel blood for his own, I don't think that their first choice would have been Aviendha. In fact, for them to have kept using Aviendha for so long when things had been looking so bleak in that direction, I think they must have dreamed that Aviendha and Rand would have a relationship. 4.18 Moiraine and Lanfear aren't dead? iv. Morin's dreams 4.19 Morin makes a comment that Jeordam would make a fine father and then she says that she saw his face in a dream. =============== Reply 11 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:11 PM I think they must have married eventually. Either way whatever happened has been fulfilled by now. v. Sorelle's dreams. 4.20 Dreamed that she would get a fever at twenty. She did and died. vi. Rand's dreams. 4.21 Ishamael first beginning to touch Rand's dreams. 4.22 Another Ishamael haunted dream. 4.23 In Moiraine's description of the fall of Aridhol, she says, "How Thorin's son, Caar, came to win Aridhol back to the Second Covenant, and Balwen sat his throne, a withered shell with the light of madness in his eyes, laughting while Mordeth smiled at his side and ordered the deaths of Caar and the embassy as Friends of the Dark. How Prince Caar came to be called Caar One-Hand. How he escaped the dungeons of Aridhol and fled alone to the Borderlands with Mordeth's unnatural assasins at his heels." With this in mind, my analysis of the dream is this: Rand meshed all the recent things that had happened to him together and had a normal nightmare. Tam's sword has become important to him. In Baerlon, Min told him of Lan's aura, of a baby in a cradle carrying a sword. The persuit of Prince Caar by Mordeth's unnatural assasins and Prince Caar's loss of his hand. the old man must then be Balwen. 4.24 Ishamael in Rand's dream. 4.25 Ordinary nightmare spawned from all the unusual happenings and from the stress of running and being hunted. Where he got the "Dragon is one with the land" and the "Queen is wed with the land," I don't know. It sounds celtic. 4.26 Blacked out when he fell over the wall. Either an ordinary nightmare turned Ishamael invaded, or just an ordinary nightmare. 4.27 Ishamael haunted dream. 4.28 Ordinary dream created by his subconscious based on what had been happening so far. Suprisingly insightful dream. His subconcious notices that Moiraine is prodding him because of her fears of what will happen if he doesn't accept his destiny. His problem deciding between Min and Elayne finds it's way into his dream as well as his fear of going mad and decaying from the taint. 4.29 Lanfear enters Rand's dream which had been of Elayne and Min again with Aviendha making her first appearance. 4.30 Elayne, Min, and Aviendha are constantly in Rand's dreams now. 4.31 A dream of Aviendha. 4.32 Another ordinary dream resulting from Melaine's wedding and his own subconscious desires. 4.33 Nothing prophetic. 5. Visions. i. Min's visions. 5.01 group-The group is central to the events leading to the Last Battle and the events during the Last Battle. In danger. =============== Reply 12 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:11 PM Egwene & Thom-Both part of it. Egwene will not marry Rand, be his lover, or any of the above. She will become Aes Sedai. Lan-Lan's past/Malkier, etc. Thom-Owen, Thom's nephew who could channel. The White Tower is probably in his aura because he attempted to save Owen from the Tower, or at least because he is attempting to save Rand from the Tower. However, it could mean he can learn to channel or that he can channel. I doubt it. Perrin-Perrin will become a wolfbrother. The meaning of the trees flowering around him is possibly freom TSR when Perrin is under apple blossoms where family buried. Probably it hasn't occured yet. The broken crown might have something to do with Manetheren or at least with his new found Lordship of the Two Rivers. Mat-The red eagle could mean that he is Aemon reborn, however in most cases Mat has been a millitary advisor, not the one in charge. Again the left eye is his price for his bargain with the Eelfinn. The dagger retreived from Shadar Logoth/Aridhol. Mat would blow the Horn of Valere and become linked with it (still is?). Mat's sense of humor? Rand-Callandor is the sword that isn't a sword. The golden crown of laurel leaves may symbolize victory, or it has not been fulfilled. The beggar staff theory is mentioned elsewhere, however it is yet unfulfilled. The pouring of water on sand could have been fulfilled either by the lake created when Rand fought Asmodean/Joar Addam Nessosin or when he caused the fountain's to run again or when he caused it to rain in Al'cair Dal. The bloody hand has several theories to it which are covered the FAQ. Essentially, the actual event that this predicts cannot be guessed. The three women standing over Rand's funeral bier is probably that actual vision that Min had where she discovered that she would fall in love with him as well as Elayne and Aviendha. The funeral bier would indicate that Rand will die. The blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul again. Danger. 5.02 Egwene-Egwene will be Amyrlin. White Flame of Tar Valon. Elayne-Elayne will have to share Rand with Min and Aviendha. She will be Queen of Andor. Someone is going to loose a hand, maybe Rand. 5.03 Elayne is part of the group. 5.04 Rand won't marry Egwene, but will likely marry Elayne, Aviendha, and Min. 5.05 Elayne is linked to Rand, Perrin, Mat, and Galad. 5.06 Nynaeve-Nynaeve will be in trouble and the ring will be in her rescue. Elayne-Another reference to an iron. A "white hot" iron was mentioned in Rand's viewing in Baerlon (5.01). The significance of the axe is unknown. Both-The images mean trouble, but it will occur in the distant future (soon, perhaps? only three books left...) 5.07 Aviendha and the relationship that Rand will have with them all is uncertain. Which is strange since it specifically says in the viewing of Elayne at Tar Valon =============== Reply 13 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:11 PM (5.02) that Elayne will have to share her _husband_ with two other women. That indicates to me that they will all be married to Rand as is the Aiel custom. 5.08 Perrin-Gaul when he was captured by Hunters of the Horn and caged in the village of Remen. Aram was the Tuatha'an with a sword. Now both falcone and hawk perch on his shoulders. The significance of that is unknown to me. If perching on his shoulder does signify marriage (?), then something strange is going to happen. The odd thing is that here Faile and Berelain are not fighting. The usual danger stuff. 5.09 Ananda-dead Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah-dead Aes Sedai w/ blue eyes-dead Three Aes Sedai-three above would die Accepted-caged, maybe dead Sheriam-wouldn't die Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah-dead warders-wounds, death servants-bear signs of violence An Aes Sedai-more captivity another-an a'dam Gawyn-I think his "hurt" is that he killed Hammar and Coulin and the feat was made pointless when he lets Siuan walk free. He was in the wrong when he killed Hammar and Coulin, but he didn't know that at the time. Then again, he could simply have stood aside-well, lets not argue ethics. Whatever, it's evident that he's done something wrong to his thinking, either in killing Hammar and Coulin or in letting Siuan and Leane go. I suppose in killing Hammar and Coulin, he earned a right to a blademaster's sword-perhaps he took one of their swords. He was also threatened by a Warder's sword when he fought them. The green field may signify that he will become a Warder to the Green Ajah, to Egwene. Or it could tie him to the Seanchan. According to Aaron17, the colors gold and green are repeatedly mentioned in the chapter, "A Short Spear," in FOH. Leane-she would be tortured and stilled-not necessarily in that order. Suian Sanche-Suian would be stilled, stripped, and left locked up in one of the deep cells where no one has been confined since Bonwhin. Rand-I don't know about the faces being blurred. I think she lied. Elayne, Min and Aviendha would fall in love w/ Rand. 5.10 Logain-The Cairhien flag is a "many-rayed golden sun rising from the bottom of a field of sky blue." I personally think that Logain and Sheriam (5.12) are destined to be the rulers of Cairhien. Nuts, I know! Then there is also Turak's banner. "Fain eyed the blue-bordered banner flapping above the roof, the spread-winged hawk clutching lightning bolts, and chortled inside himself..." "Above the rooftops, on the next street, the golden hawk banner of the High Lord Turak flapped in the wind." Considering that many of the visions Min had in =============== Reply 14 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: EXPORT THIS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:11 PM Salidar of Aes Sedai were connected with the Seanchan, it might be wise to believe that the Seanchan may also have a connection with this viewing. Or none of this may have any bearing...Either way, I must question the theory that Logain will pull out Callandor because I cannot see how Sheriam would fit into that. 5.11 Logain-covered in 5.10. Gawyn-Either Gawyn will come to realize that Egwene and Suian are in the right, or he will do everything in his power to thwart them/Egwene. 5.12 Sheriam-Must somehow be connected with Logain-too similar not to be.(5.10) Carlinya-"To wear the ravens was to be the property of the Imperial family."